Disorder: Giving order to the ‘Global Enduring Disorder’

Disorder is a podcast from Goalhanger that seeks to explain the real dynamics and interconnections that underlie our contemporary global system. Hosted by Alexandra Hall Hall and Jason Pack, the show is based around the paradigm of ‘Global Enduring Disorder’, a concept created by Jason to describe a new era of deliberate disorder, where major international players actively undermine global order, eschew collaboration, and block knowledge accumulation.

We caught up with the hosts of the show to learn more about this concept, the inspiration behind the podcast and where new listeners should start to order the disorder…

Who are you and what is your podcast about?

BOTH: We are London-based American Middle East expert Jason Pack and DC-based former British Ambassador Alexandra Hall Hall. Jason is the inventor of the ‘Global Enduring Disorder’ paradigm: the concept behind the Disorder podcast.

On the Disorder podcast, we speak to political journalists and historians such as Anne Applebaum, Jonathan Powell, Tom Malinowski and many more, and we seek to learn from their experiences to – as the tagline suggests – ‘Order the Disorder’. The podcast has covered topics like climate change, Neo-Populism, and unregulated cyberspace, analysing how they feed into our era of Disorder.

Jason Park, co-host of the Disorder podcast

Why did you start the podcast?

JASON: Firstly, I feel that many of the world’s top table issues are interlinked, but are usually presented as if they were discrete. Issues about the Arab Spring are covered separately from issues about regulating AI. The climate change dossier and the tax evasion dossier are written about like they are not connected. But in reality these issues are all part and parcel of the coordination failures that underlie the Enduring Disorder. Secondly, I noticed that a lot of journalism, think tank reports, and other podcasts are really all about the problems. They diagnose them and tell funny stories about them. I wanted to create a show that was engaging and told real people’s stories, but also proposed solutions. That is why I made the Disorder Show and created our unique ‘Ordering the Disorder’ segment.

ALEX: Partly, I wanted to learn a new skill set. It keeps me on my toes. It forces me to think through my biases and prejudices; be challenged by different viewpoints. I enjoy debating with Jason. It’s helped me find my voice, in this mad, mad, mad, mad world.

Alexandra Hall Hall, co-host of the Disorder podcast

What have you learned from doing the show, so far?

ALEX: It has helped restore my confidence in mankind, to hear so many guests on the show – some of whom have been in the most difficult situations – retain hope, confidence, and determination to fight to make this a better world. The best recent example is Jason’s interview with Evgenia Kara Murza, the wife of Vladimir Kara-Murza, the Russian opposition politician who is serving a 25 year jail sentence on completely trumped up charges, for daring to criticise Putin. She was powerfully, righteously, angry – and hearing her made me want to fight her cause as well.

The Americans on the show tend to be more confident and forward looking than the British. I don’t know if their confidence is justified, but they retain a faith in the power of America to do good in the world. Britain, post-Brexit, seems to be both in denial and in a complete funk.

If you had to describe your show only using other podcasts, what would they be?

BOTH: We aspire for the humour and unified focus of Remainiacs, the moral clarity of Sam Harris’s Making Sense, and the production value and editing of Doomsday Watch and Power Corrupts.

If someone’s new to your show, which episode should they start with?

BOTH: We are a narrative program based on the Enduring Disorder concept, so I think you should start all the way at the beginning with Episode 1 to get a hold on what we are about. Other episodes that really set the stage are: ‘Ep3. The Rise of the Neo-Populists’; ‘Ep6. NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder?’; ‘Ep11. The Psychology of Chaos’ and episode 17 is good because it looks back at the first year of the show.

Lastly, what’s your favourite podcast?

JASON: My three favourite pods no longer exist: Remainiacs, Doomsday Watch, and Power Corrupts. And I’m sorry, but Oh God What Now?, and This is Not a Drill, while very good, are just not at the same level.

Listen to Disorder on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other popular podcast apps >>