If You Were In Charge: Sanam Naraghi Anderlini is asking the big questions

If You Were In Charge is a weekly podcast where Sanam Naraghi Anderlini asks her guests what they would do if they had unlimited power to solve the world’s toughest problems. We asked her some questions about her podcast, which started in October this year, and her work in general…

Who are you and what is your podcast about?

My name is Sanam Naraghi Anderlini. I’m Iranian by birth, British by education, Italian by former marriage, American by migration, and global in my work and vocation. I’m the Founder and CEO of the International Civil Society Action Network (ICAN), adjunct professor at Columbia University’s School of International Public Affairs (SIPA) and a Richard von Weizsacker Fellow at the Robert Bosch Academy. I am also mother to identical twin girls, aged 23, and come from a close-knit global family.

For nearly 30 years, I’ve worked at the frontlines of a field of practice known as “women peace and security”. It took me to New York and the UN, chasing diplomats and writing the draft of UN Security Council resolution 1325 that with much editing – got passed – and has been among the most radical, potentially transformative developments for peace, of the past decades. Because I was there when it all got started, I’ve had the chance to explore and discover, create, advocate, and practice what I was preaching.

I did research in 15 countries and wrote a book called Women Building Peace: What They Do, Why It Matters, The UN asked me back to train staff and lead more research – this time on men and what makes them vulnerable to becoming violent or joining militant groups. All this led me to study the rise of identity-based extremism from Jihadis to white supremacists and identify effective ways of preventing and offering alternatives.

Since I believed in and was inspired by the women I met, I started ICAN out of an old wing-backed armchair in my living room. It was an idea that has become reality: a small organization leading a global network – like the league of extraordinary women. We have over 90 partners in 43 countries, set up a fund and disbursed $11M and counting in over 30 countries, and continue to influence government policies, and trying to bring peace actors to peace negotiations. I was stunned to receive an MBE in 2020 for my work on “International peacebuilding and women’s rights”.

Sanam Naraghi Anderlini

It took me to all manner of places; a gala dinner in Johannesburg where I got to kiss (and be kissed) by Nelson Mandela, tea with the Maoists in Nepal, comparing parenting notes and fears of death with gangsters in Jamaica, debating manhood and masculinity with guerillas in Liberia, a brush with the law and the revolutionary courts in Iran, talking Security sector reform with the paramount chiefs in Fiji, backroom meetings with Muslim women who neighboured the men who blew themselves up and killed hundreds of people on an Easter Sunday in Sri Lanka’s chicest hotels. It also meant that in 2021 when the Taliban took over Afghanistan, at ICAN, I decided we would try to live up to our name and do what we could to help our partners. We were able to help 1100 people – mainly women peacebuilders and their families to safety in Germany, the US, Canada, and the UK. We are still channelling money to women’s organizations active across the country.

It’s all part of the ongoing 45-year odyssey of an 11-year Persian girl who danced to the tune of Boney M on the balmy summer nights of ’78 when the military curfews cracked their guns and the “Allah o Akbars” ricocheted off building blocks in north Tehran. She went on a 10-day vacation with a suitcase full of schoolbooks and ski clothes, and never returned to that life. I’m a girl who lost her home and land, a young woman who felt compelled to help others avoid the same fate, a working mom, and an immigrant who calls the world home.

The podcast series focuses on global challenges and issues of our times, with emphasis on solutions, possibilities, and hope. It counters the trend of issues being polarized by politicians, sensationalized by the media, and oversimplified on social media, by creating the space for complexity, nuance, and actionable solutions. With a pivot away from the usual pundits, I put the spotlight on the frontline, roll-up-their-sleeves “do-ers”. From extreme capitalism to nature conservation, the future of feminism and peace in the Middle East, each podcast is an informal but in-depth conversation with the imaginers, and innovators focusing on their work and solutions, and what else could be done if they were in charge.

The format allows for a wide range of topics and solutions, big and small. Importantly, the podcast bridges the gap between specialist knowledge and general audiences. By demystifying the issues, If You Were in Charge also aims to educate, empower, and inspire listeners to imagine what they too could do, about the issues they care about.

Why did you decide to start If You Were In Charge?

I started If You Were in Charge, with the aim of amplifying the work and perspectives of people who have dedicated their lives to tackling some of the world’s most complex problems. In my line of work and community of practice I meet so many wonderful people doing extraordinary work. Many of us have innovative and practical solutions that could have transformative impact, but too often the daily work of “doing” means there is little time left for the writing and sharing of ideas. This is particularly true for women. Despite all the progress on equality, most of us are juggling our family and professional responsibilities. Having the brain space to write and publish becomes a luxury that few have.

The simple premise of If You Were in Charge is to give the “do-ers” the space, and enable them to share their solutions, if they had the power and the resources to do so, and hopefully inform, inspire, and energize audiences.

I was also motivated by my frustration with the armchair pundits that offer erudite critiques of all that is going wrong, but rarely offer solutions. I find the prevailing sense of pessimism disturbing, because ultimately to be pessimistic about the future is a privilege of the privileged. I also get exhausted listening to the “what’s wrongs” and the problems. It is demoralizing and often sucks the energy out of the room. I think audiences are also fatigued generally, so people switch off. But I’ve also found that when I ask experts what their solutions are, or what they’d do if they were in charge, their entire demeanour changes.

The framing allows for extraordinary breadth in terms of the topics we could select.

Sanam Naraghi Anderlini

What do you hope listeners will take away from your podcast?

New insights into issues they often hear about but have become background noise “problems”.

Inspiration, hope and respect for my guests and their work and insights.

A “can-do” sense about big issues and positive momentum.

A sense of the “ordinariness” of these extraordinary people with whom I talk. So often activists and advocates are seen as unidimensional and distant. I want to show how approachable people are, and how relatable they are. It’s a way of showing that each of us has the capacity to have an impact if we care enough, if we are committed enough, and have the courage and imagination.

You have a section at the beginning of the podcast where you talk to your daughter Soleh (and occasionally her twin sister Lydia) about the guest and/or theme of that week’s episode. What made you decide to include your daughters on the podcast?

My kids, all the kids around us, are the future. We are handing them a world full of problems. It’s unfair because we as GenX, or earlier generations, especially the post-war and the boomers have had the very best of the world. Yet we have squandered all that was given to us – be it in terms of the environment, peace and stability, human rights, or socio-economic opportunities.

We owe our children some light and hope in this increasingly tough environment. I have enormous respect for GenZ as they are attuned to many of the critical challenges we face in the world. They know from first-hand experience what gun violence in the US means, and how climate change affects them and the future. They are savvy about social media and political manipulation. They are also irreverent and funny.

But I worry also that sometimes knowledge leads to inertia and pessimism. That’s also unfair to the younger generation. We need to share with them how things are done, what is still possible and how important it is to imagine solutions and create new approaches.

I wanted to have a chance to hear from them, have them inform my discussions with the various guests, and for them to hear about the solutions that exist.

It’s also a nice way to spend time with my girls now that they’re both living their own lives. I have fun when they poke fun at me. I hope that their generation will listen in and relate to them, even if they find me old and stodgy.

Sanam with her twin daughters

What role do you think podcasts can play in sharing ideas and getting information to a wider audience?

I think podcasts are the antidote to social media. They provide a space to delve into issues with more nuance. They have rekindled the art of conversation and discussion.

The fact that I can provide a platform for people who rarely make it into the mainstream news yet are working on issues that are constantly in the news, is important to me. Traditional media likes to talk to the big names and celebrities. It’s bite-size quotes and problem oriented – often sensationalized. Or it’s a “gotcha” mentality, trying to catch people out.

On a podcast, you can have a diversity of guests from all walks of life, to share their perspectives and experiences – to show that you don’t have to be a president or billionaire to make an impact.

In fact, the self-empowerment of citizens is one of the repeated common themes across all the discussions from peace-making and advocacy against police violence to nature conservation and justice. With their own communities and families at risk, or because they have a love of nature or a passion for justice, people are taking matters in their own hands.

While money matters to their work, it is not sufficient. What really makes the difference is the quality of the cohorts of people who care enough to act. When they do, they inspire others through sharing their own courage and enthusiasm and imagination. While the actions may seem minuscule compared to the scale of the problem, every small win has an effect. It shows that change is possible.

We’re going to turn your lead question back on you now – if you were in charge, what would you change?

That’s easy and difficult.

1. I would change the entire way we think about war and peace. I would focus on ending the 56 major wars we have in the world. They are entirely human-made problems, so it means they can be entirely resolved by human beings, if we had the political will and interest.

So, I would put the prevention and resolution of wars as the singular priority of our time – because wars are a driver of destruction, refugee flows, environmental damage, and deep trauma. But we can control and stop them, because while conflict is natural, violence is a choice, and it is not inevitable.

I’d invest in radical diplomacy that, by definition, would be inclusive of the people affected by wars, and the local peacebuilders who are the agents of change. It’s putting peace actors at the tables of negotiations, so that violence is not the only ticket to the table and armed actors aren’t swapping military fatigues for fancy suits in a shift to “power sharing”.

I write and talk about these issues in detail and ad-nauseum, so I won’t go on, but suffice it to say, that our models of war and peace diplomacy are too archaic to be effective for contemporary complex wars. The good news is that we have models that can be effective. We know from experience that two factors are needed for sustainable peacemaking: political will and inclusivity. If we focus on the inclusivity, we can muster up the political will more effectively.

People often say, “peace is possible”. I prefer to say that “without peace everything else is impossible”, so we need to stop taking it for granted, and invest in it, foster it, value, and appreciate it.

2. I’d also change the narrative and tell the untold stories of peace heroism. Hobbes was wrong. Humanity is not de facto violent. In fact, our natural state is peaceful and seeking to co-exist. Violence is an aberration which serves a minority of humanity. The vast majority of men and especially women are not prone to violence as a primary act. War is also not good for business. It is bad for most businesses and only good for the weapons industry. So, we need to change the narratives, pull back the curtain and expose the sham of “national security expertise” and the minority who benefit from increasing militarization and perpetual war.

3. We can democratize security debates by engaging and enabling people to feel confident about talking about “what security means to them” – and in this way rethink our priorities to link human and national security together and allocate resources accordingly. I’d reduce defence spending and invest in education, health, environmental issues. I’m not naïve, I get that we may need deterrence, but whether we have 40 or 50 nuclear bombs or 1000 is almost irrelevant. Much of this weaponry is only useful if it stays entirely useless.

Episode one’s guest is Abigail Disney, grand niece of Walt Disney, and a philanthropist and social activist. Photograph: By U.S. Institute of Peace – Flickr, CC BY 2.0

Can you remember what the first podcast you ever listened to was?

Empire – with William Dalrymple and Anita Anand.

Which podcasts do you take inspiration from? And which podcasts have impacted you the most?

Wait Wait…Don’t Tell Me! – from NPR is always great. I like the humour.

My kids have shared episodes of You’re Wrong About which are fascinating – in part because I lived through some of the incidents in real time.

Legal ones like 5-4 are interesting – to get a perspective I don’t often hear and generally I like the discussions/podcasts where people who are practitioners and experts in their field, look under the hood, discuss, and analyse and make issues accessible.

It reminds me of Einstein’s quote (or attributed to him) that if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t know the topic well enough.

Which episode would you say is the perfect introduction to your podcast?

Episode 1 with Abigail Disney is a great introduction. Not only does she talk about the challenges and dangers of extreme capitalism to society, and offer her solutions, but she also discusses the links to other issues that come up in future episodes.

Episode 2 with Kelly Ghaisar is another great example – as it’s the story of a family, and a woman who was a professional interior designer, suddenly having her life ripped apart, being lurched into the universe of police violence and impunity, and deciding to take charge. Her convictions and integrity are so strong, that they give her inordinate courage and power. It’s very moving.

I could go on because every episode has its unique quality and topic.

Could you tell us more about the guests you have coming up on this first season of If You Were In Charge?

So far, I’ve had Abigail Disney, Kelly Ghaisar, Dame EJ Milner-Gulland, Kavita Nandini Ramdas.

I have had Rabbi Hanan Schlesinger on November 12th discussing the issue of Jewish settlers/settlements in the Occupied West Bank, and Mohammad Darwashe on educating for peace and equal coexistence in Israel on November 18th.

Meredith Whittaker who is CEO of the Signal Foundation (Signal app) joined me to discuss AI, cyber security and surveillance issues, and Professor Stephen Walt of Harvard’s Kennedy School joined me to talk about hypocrisy in US Foreign policy, academic freedom, and the price you pay for speaking truth to power.

Episode eight’s guest is Meredith Whittaker, President of Signal, seen here on the Future Societies stage of the Web Summit 2022, Portugal. Photo by Sam Barnes/Web Summit via Sportsfile

Who would be your dream guest for the podcast?

Funny thing is so far I’ve had my dream guests.

I would love to invite:

• Dr. Hanan Ashrawi – CEO of Miftah & Former spokesperson for the Palestinian Authority
• Steve Balmer -Ex-CEO of Microsoft and now head of Usafacts
• Kamala Harris now that she’s lost the elections, to discuss how she’d do things differently.

If I could reach up to the heavens, I’d invite Nelson Mandela and Princess Diana. People forget that at just aged 36 when she passed away, she had already made a profound impact on public attitudes regarding HIV/AIDs and on the Campaign to Ban Landmines. Imagine if she had survived and continued her advocacy for critical causes.

Where can the Pod Bible readers find out more about you/the podcast?

You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and everywhere else you get your podcasts. For more about my work and organization please check out Icanpeacework.org

Twitter/X I often comment (still) at my handle @sanambna & @Whatthewomensay

Instagram @Albaloo2910 and @whatthewomensay

LinkedIn @sanam Naraghi Anderlini and @International Civil Society Action Network.

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