The Football Ramble has been at the centre of football podcasting across the world for 15 years. What started out as four blokes sitting round a kitchen table with a minidisc player has grown into a varied slate of shows, including everything from studio discussions dissecting both the men’s and women’s game, to interviews, documentaries and immersive on-location features. Through all that the team maintain a keen eye for the absurd, and it’s been that way since its inception in 2007.

With the new football season starting this month ahead of a World Cup starting in November, we sat down with Charlie Morgan – Head of Production at Stak and a Football Ramble producer – to discuss what we can expect from the year ahead.

So, what does your day as a producer look like?

A real joy of the job is that no two days are the same. Mondays and Fridays are still dominated by the main Football Ramble episodes that we record at Stak HQ, so the content-planning and organisation for those hugely popular episodes is always a priority – listeners want to hear from us as soon as possible!

Away from that, it could be anything! I might be heading to a match to record an episode of At The Match with Andy Brassell, or we might be in the Stak office planning our next documentary series. I think listeners really enjoy the variety of what we do – so my job is equally as varied.

What are you most excited for on the Ramble network this season?

Upfront, our award-nominated women’s football show, has been really successful throughout the Euros this summer, and it’s a true joy to work on. I can’t wait to do more with Flo, Rachel and Chloe as we continue to grow the show and truly set our stall out as the definitive place for women’s football audio. Watch this space!

What’s the hardest part of producing the Football Ramble?

The range of content means we’re constantly juggling different deadlines! Some shows need to be recorded, edited and made available for listeners within an hour while others take months to produce, so keeping track of various spinning plates can be tricky.

Thankfully I’ve got a great team around me who keep things running smoothly. Luke Moore, Stak’s COO and Football Ramble host, has a wealth of experience we often draw on, while Finn Ranson and Rory Evans are the true workhorses of the Ramble team. It’s gone from a passion project to one of the biggest podcasts in the UK, but it’s safe to say the passion hasn’t gone anywhere.

Listen to Football Ramble on all popular podcast apps.

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The podcast is a co-production between the ETT (English Touring Theatre) and Storyglass. We usually do host interviews for new podcasts, but with multiple famous hosts taking on their own parts of the 6-part series, we decided to speak to the people on the other side of the microphone. So we asked some questions of Jen Bakst (Commissioning Editor) and Robert Delamere & Richard Twyman (Executive Producers.) Here are their amalgamated answers:

What does a producer consider when taking on a new podcast job – what appealed to you about THAT PODCAST?

We’d never heard of a project quite like THAT PODCAST… That’s what got us excited about the idea.

A magazine-style podcast which meshes together journalistic storytelling, comedy, interviews with experts, testimonials from the public and creative storytelling? It was like a chemistry experiment – it was either going to blow up in our faces, or it was going to result in a really interesting new format. So we thought we’d give it a go!

Plus, what with ETT being a theatre company, we were really keen to keep working with playwrights and creative freelancers who had had their projects cancelled due to the pandemic, to enable these brilliant visionaries to keep making imaginative and important work and share it with a broad range of audiences. So together with Storyglass, we paired these writers up with some of Britain’s leading comedians, journalists and commentators to synthesize fact and fiction in a new podcast.

We were relieved and delighted to find out that this content all sits side-by-side really well. There’s an exciting alchemy in combining factual material with humorous commentary and artistic perspective.

In terms of the actual content – these are obviously very strange and unexpected times to be living in, so we just wanted to really interrogate how the pandemic has influenced every aspect of our lives: from our dreams, to our love lives, to our communities, our news, our travel, our grieving rituals…

Did you take inspiration from any podcasts in particular before you started (either as a team, or an individual)?

When we first started this project, it was the summer of 2020, and everyone was still trying to wrap their minds around how the pandemic had changed the world overnight. At some point in a meeting, one of us said something like: “I wish the UK had a version of This American Life to explain it all to us!” It was a joke, but as with all jokes made in frustration, there was a definite kernel of truth in it. The idea stuck with us.

This American Life is so iconic in the world of podcasting, with its deep-dives into existential state-of-the-nation questions, how it features voices of the public in a meaningful way, and how it goes into the minutiae of the constantly changing landscape of daily life. We wanted to do a British version of This American Life, but made from a mostly cultural perspective instead of a journalistic one. We wanted to try and put together a creative insight into the complex and mercurial question of what it means to be British today, by telling stories from contemporary life reimagined by some of the most exciting voices in fiction.

Also, an absolutely huge shout out to Ewan MacColl, Peggy Seeger and Charles Parker, the geniuses behind the radio ballads of the 50s, who gave us the idea for mixing artforms in audio.

What is the most valuable lesson you have learned producing this type of ‘magazine’ podcast?

We learned two big headline things: number one is – there are just crazy amounts of talent out there in every facet of British cultural life, in every nook and cranny. I mean, we obviously had a pretty good sense of that before we started. But I don’t think we were fully ready for the total breadth and depth of how the UK’s cultural scene is bursting at the seams with fascinating, diverse, imaginative, wild and wonderful artists. It was such a privilege to work with people from every discipline – performance artists, spoken word artists, drag artists, theatre-makers, storytellers, singer-songwriters, sleep scientists, journalists, sex historians, refugee human rights advocates, sex workers, app developers, novelists, travel writers, data scientists and spiritual leaders… We worked with over one hundred people on this podcast and we would have worked with a hundred more if we could have, but I think it would have broken the budget (and the team).

The second thing is – when you’re making a project that involves over a hundred people, it takes time. As the project grew and developed, we started uncovering more and more material, more stories, and more content from all our contributors. We realised pretty quickly that this was going to be a massive project that would need some deep thought and some proper nurturing of the many different pieces and artforms that were going into it. Ultimately, we’re really proud of what we’ve put out – but we also still have so many stories, testimonials, facts and ideas for creative commissions that didn’t make it into the podcast because we had to make cuts for the edit. Fingers crossed we get a season two so we can share some of our best-loved but as yet unheard materials!

You have different celebrity guests presenting each part. How did the collaboration work with the presenters?

It was such a joy to work with an amazing line up of different hosts – incredible comedians like Sophie Duker, Desiree Burch, Chris McCausland and Nish Kumar, film legends like Terry Gilliam, and top-shelf journalists like Remona Aly. Each one of them is so politically engaged, so smart and switched on, and with such a unique voice and perspective on things. It felt like, thanks to these collaborations with different hosts, each episode was refracted through a different lens, making the overall effect of the thing feel like a kaleidoscope of viewpoints. Which is exactly what we wanted for this project that is supposed to reflect the diversity of our nation.

For each one of them, we had an early-doors chat with the hosts to discuss the theme of the episode, and get their input. Then, based on those chats we’d set to curating content for the episode – interviewees, testimonials, creative commissions, etc. We eventually drafted a script for the episode and they’d change it round and make it their own.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet with THAT PODCAST, but you would really like to work on?

Something that was new for us on THAT PODCAST was the testimonials from members of the public. So many people were really generous and honest with us in sharing their lived experiences, which ranged from the hilarious, to the unexpected, to the really really difficult.

The bummer though is that because of COVID restrictions, we couldn’t get any audio from live community events, from people on the streets, from people’s homes, things happening in the moment. Maybe in the next season, if we’re not making it in a lockdown this time, we’ll be able to fulfil our dream of having a roving reporter gathering audio from live events and gatherings, rather than doing it remotely via the internet.

How do you experience other podcasts as a listener? Can you turn off your editing ear and just enjoy shows, or do you always tune in to the things you would have done differently yourself?

We’re really happy to just enjoy what pops up in our feed, and celebrate the rich range of the podcasting world.

Because it’s still a relatively early medium, content is made at really different levels of professionalism. Some podcasts are really home-brewed and sweet, whereas others are much more thoroughly researched and supported have higher production values. There’s a really wide range out there, and no “right” way to make a podcast.

Where can Pod Bible readers find out more about you?

You can listen to THAT PODCAST… on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Acast, and wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more about ETT, visit www.ett.org.uk. For more on Fremantle and Storyglass, go to www.fremantle.com.

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It Happened to Me riffs on the first-person stories you find in newspaper supplements and real-life magazines, with episodes including “I joined a cult and accidentally killed its leader”, “I run a soft play centre for adults only”, “I performed magic to the man who burgled my house”. Michael is making this podcast with long-time collaborator, the comedy writer Matt Tiller. We caught up with them both to talk more about the show.

Hi Matt and Michael! Tell us a bit about the new podcast – what’s your elevator pitch??

Michael: It Happened to Me is about ordinary people with extraordinary stories to tell. Each week a guest is interviewed about the life-changing experience that happened to them. The difference is every story is made up and every guest is played by me.

Matt: Michael Spicer is doing a podcast. That’s enough for people to know it’s good without me telling anyone that I’m interfering in it and putting them off. But the proper elevator pitch is what Michael said.

Where did you ‘find’ these stories? (talk us through the inspiration for the podcast)

Michael: I’ve worked with Matt on and off for twenty years and he knew that I always loved character acting, so he suggested we come up with a podcast that plays on the idea of him interviewing me playing a different character each week. I then hit upon the idea of parodying those articles in weekend magazines where people are interviewed about the one extraordinary event that happened to them. The main source of our ideas was the weekly ‘Experience’ articles in The Guardian Lifestyle section – ‘My parachute didn’t open’, ‘I drink more than 50 cups of tea a day’, ‘I found the man who shot me’, etc. We began improvising over Zoom and it seemed to work. That’s when we got the brilliant Cup and Nuzzle involved.

Matt: We wanted to do a podcast that was funny but wasn’t just two people chatting because our conversations are probably quite tedious to anyone but us. Michael has always been a brilliant character comedian, so it made sense to find a format that allowed him to bring his creations to life. Talking to people with extraordinary stories was the kind of thing I did as a journalist and researcher on terrible daytime television shows in my twenties, so it was nice of Michael to come up with an idea that brought back haunting memories of the past.

Do you have a favourite story so far?

Michael: My favourite story is ‘I rescued my vinyl collection before my family’ because for a 15-minute podcast we cram a lot into it which will hopefully make it a very entertaining listen – the story is outrageous, the character is deeply tragic and coming up with the entirely fabricated band names in the vinyl collection was so much fun. I do love the story of the magician who performed magic tricks to deter a burglar too. That made me laugh when I heard it back anyway.

Matt: I love the fact that these are intricate little stories and the one I enjoy most as a tale is probably ‘I joined a cult and accidentally killed its leader’ because it has such lovely and, at times, horrific details. But the funniest is probably the bloke who rescued his vinyl collection before his family when their house caught fire. I know many music obsessives and, while I don’t think any would go quite that far as they are decent people, it was fun to imagine someone who took it to such extremes. And the band and song names Michael came up with are so good I want to listen to them even though they would be universally dreadful.

What’s the collaboration been like between you?

Michael: It’s the easiest thing in the world because as I say we’ve been working together for two decades so we know what makes each other laugh. He’s also more of a producer than me. I spent most of my 20s and 30s working proper jobs while doing comedy on the side whereas Matt has always been in the comedy business. He knows how to tinker with the machinery to make it work, whereas my head is firmly in the clouds trying to think of the next idea or the next joke. I think that’s why we work well together.

Matt: Given Michael’s recent and deserved success I’m just glad he continues to answer my calls. It is a relationship borne out of twenty years of failure and you can’t buy that kind of commitment.

Why podcasting? What is it about the format that appealed to you for this project?

Michael: After The Room Next Door sketches went viral, I wanted to prove I could do more than just that character and that style of sketch-writing. Podcasting seemed like a logical step because it offers the artist complete freedom to do what they want. Plus, our interview format is ideally suited to podcasts. I mean we parody that format mercilessly but nonetheless it is perfect.

Matt: It’s a joy to just create something that doesn’t have to fit a particular format or slot. And this idea gives us almost limitless characters and we’d love to do more.

Are there any big lessons you’ve learned as a podcaster?

Michael: There are some incredibly talented sound engineers out there who can edit an hour’s worth of rambling, improvisational nonsense and convert it into an entertaining, concise, and listenable 15 minutes. Quite frankly they are miracle workers and deserve all the awards available.

Matt: That you need to craft the show with as much attention to detail as you would for any other platform. As a producer, that wasn’t a surprise, but you still need people who you trust to tell you what they think of an idea, script or take. Having a production company come on board has made a huge difference and Matt Everitt and the team at Cup & Nuzzle have not only helped us shape the idea, but also made it sound really good. If we’d done it ourselves it would’ve had the ambience of two middle aged men prattling down a well while clanging a rusty bike wheel.

Finally, what is your current favourite podcast you would recommend to readers?

Michael: I adore You Must Remember This. It’s a consistently fascinating and gorgeous podcast about Hollywood’s forgotten history.

Matt: The one podcast I’ve been with from the start is one I still enjoy – The Bugle. I was a fan of Andy Zaltzman and John Oliver when it launched and I admire how The Bugle survived and evolved after Oliver’s cruel abandonment of the ship for his own HBO show while Zaltzman was left to forge a satisfying career in comedy, podcasting and cricket analysis. I’ll leave it to you to decide how our trajectories might compare.

Michael Spicer’s It Happened To Me is out now. Listen on ACAST, SPOTIFY or your favourite podcast app.

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Tell us a little bit about yourself and Skylark Collective – what’s your elevator pitch?

I started my first podcast, Smashing The Ceiling, back in 2018 as a challenge to myself after having a bit of an unsettled time in my professional life as a vet. Things were a bit up in the air work-wise, so I decided to set myself two personal goals instead: to launch a podcast and to run an ultramarathon. Sarah Williams, founder of the Tough Girl podcast, was my mentor and taught me everything I needed to know. She helped me to get started in podcasting and prepare for the ultramarathon, and things have gone on from there.

I’ve recently founded the Skylark Collective, which is a global collective for women in podcasting. Skylark is a place for women to connect, collaborate and celebrate their achievements, with the aim of raising the profile of female podcasters worldwide and levelling the playing field in the industry. There are womens’ networks across the UK in a range of different sectors – Women in Film & TV, Digital Women, Women in Football to name a few – and I thought it was time to start one for women in podcasting too.

Tell us about the name – why ‘Skylark’?

I spent AGES coming up with a name! I was torn whether to choose something obvious and quite ‘Ronseal’ like ‘Women Who Podcast’. But I really wanted to incorporate the word ‘Collective’ into the name, as what we’re building is an incredible community of like-minded women, with a passion for collective action and co-operative enterprise. After going through various iterations, I landed on using the name of a bird – I live in the countryside and I love to listen to the birds when I’m out walking the dog or running in the hills.

The skylark seemed like an apt choice, as they reflect the kind of women I wanted to attract to the Collective: they might look unassuming, but they are strong, they soar high in the sky, and their voice is clear, powerful and distinctive.

Who is the Skylark Collective for?

The collective is for women who have a vision for their podcast – whether that’s more listeners, recognition, opportunities or earnings. Membership is open to anyone who identifies as a woman and is involved in podcasting; whether you’re a host, writer, editor or producer, if you’re looking to find your tribe to accompany you on your journey in podcasting then Skylark is the place for you. It doesn’t matter if you’re a novice podcaster learning the ropes, or a seasoned professional with a background in audio, we are here to support you, and we would love to hear your work for the International Women’s Podcast Awards.

One of my passions in life is meeting new people and connecting others, and I’m aiming to create a place where women meet like-minded friends and contacts for collaboration and quite honestly, a bit of fun. I think we all need that post-Covid!

The International Women’s Podcast Awards – what is it and who can enter?

I am so excited about this! A significant part of our offering at Skylark is the International Women’s Podcast Awards, which is a unique event celebrating the work of women in podcasting, both behind the mic and behind the scenes. I really believe women have important things to say, and that they deserve to be recognised and championed, and currently there are no awards anywhere in the world exclusively celebrating the work of female-led podcasts.

The International Women’s Podcast Awards are open to women from all over the world in five categories, and entries are now open – the ceremony is at the Allbright in London in September 2021 and entries are open until mid-June so there’s plenty of time to put your podcast into the mix. We very much encourage self-nomination; after all, if you don’t put yourself forward in life then other people rarely do either!

The categories are a bit different to those you’d usually find. How did you decide the themes?

To me, the joy of podcasting lies in the atmosphere created between the host, guest and listener, and in the moments of incredible sensitivity, humour or honesty that keep people engrossed. I talk all the time about these intimate moments, and decided that rather than rewarding genres or categories of podcasts, we would make the awards about individual moments of brilliance. You might not be the most well-known or most successful podcaster out there, but you may have captured that one piece of audio, that one moment in time that deserves recognition because it’s so brilliant. That’s what we’re after.

The categories for podcasters are based around four intimate moments: raw emotion, comedy gold, cliff-hanging drama and touching honesty, and there’s one separate award for editors, producers and writers for ‘Moment of Behind-The-Scenes Brilliance’ which rewards a moment from any of the other four categories that a woman has masterminded from behind the scenes. I felt it was important to recognise women working quietly away from the limelight as well as podcast hosts themselves.

What are you most excited about with Skylark Collective going forward?

I’m so excited about developing the bursary scheme, which will launch later this year. It will be open to young women aged 16-24 to pitch an idea they have and take it forward to production. It’s so interesting to me that the GenZ demographic haven’t yet adopted podcasting in the same way that they have TikTok and YouTube, and I think there’s a large pool of untapped talent there.
I’m also very excited about our first in-person events, which will be happening once restrictions lift – I’m so looking forward to meeting people and getting back out there as the Collective grows and develops.

Is there anything else you’d like to share with readers?

We are launching the Skylark Collective membership very shortly. for We’re looking for 100 founder members initially, who will be key to shaping and influencing the direction that the Collective takes. Whilst we’re inviting women from across the industry, we would love to hear from anyone that is interested in joining – we’ve been delighted with the amount of support and interest we’ve received so far but are very open to new members and would love to welcome anyone that would like to be part of our community!

Where can people find out more about you?

Our website is www.skylarkcollective.co.uk and we’re most active on Instagram where we’re @theskylarkcollective. I’ve also been on Clubhouse for a few months and have found that a useful place to network with other podcasters, particularly in the US – I’m @naomimellor on there.

Apply for the International Women’s Podcasting Awards on the Skylark Collective website now.

Naomi’s podcast, Smashing The Ceiling, has just returned for its third season, and you can listen now on Spotify, Acast or elsewhere. Naomi also hosts and produces two veterinary podcasts, Veterinary Woman and Borborygmi: Noises From The Veterinary World.

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Marcus Speller is one of the 4 original hosts of Football Ramble

Over the past three years, the Ramble has undergone some significant shifts. Starting in the summer of 2018, after about 10 years of weekly episodes, the Football Ramble began releasing shows daily and gradually welcomed four new presenters to its roster: Jules Breach (BT Sport, talkSPORT) and Andy Brassell (BT Sport, BBC) in the 2018/19 Season, and Kate Mason (Sky Sports) and Vithushan Ehantharajah (The Independent) in the 2019/20 Season. Since 2018, the Football Ramble has committed itself to diversifying its voice in a considered and thoughtful way. The show remains entertaining and fun, retaining its original intimacy and irreverence while also bringing football podcasting into the 21st Century.

“We felt it was really important for the largest independent football show in the UK to be genuinely representative of football fandom at large,” Luke enthuses. “We have also never been frightened of change or modernity.”

Jules Breach (BT Sport, talkSPORT) joined the podcast in the 2018/19 Season, and Kate Mason (Sky Sports) in the 2019/20 Season.

Welcoming Jules, Andy, Kate and Vish to the team was a conscious decision to expand and diversify the podcast’s scope – one that has enriched the Ramble’s feed. The Ramble entertains without shying away from the thornier topics, from tackling heavier issues such as racism and misogyny in football media and fan culture to ongoing feuds between Jules and Vish (as well as Pete’s never-ending procession of cryptic games).

“Vish and I got on instantly when we first met, we have a brother-sister type friendship,” Jules laughs. “On one Ramble he refused to sing the theme tune from The OC and let’s just say I hammered him for it, ever since then people think he’s scared of me and that I bully him – but it’s all love really.”

Vithushan Ehantharajah (The Independent) came onboard in the 2019/20 Season.

The Ramble’s eight hosts are united by their passion for football and a shared inability to take themselves too seriously. In amongst reactions to all the sublime and the ridiculous from the latest fixtures, you’ll find Jules teaching you swear words you didn’t even know existed and Andy somehow bringing everything back to his remarkably extensive knowledge of Dutch footballers-turned-rappers.

“Jules, Kate, Andy and Vish ‘get’ the Ramble. They always have, and the show is now the best it’s ever been,” Luke adds. “We feel really privileged to have been able to diversify the show’s voices, chiefly because they’re all so good and provide fresh and entertaining takes on the game we love.”

In this football show – like any chat with your mates – anything goes.

Listen to Football Ramble on the Stakhanov website, ACAST, and SPOTIFY.

Blandine Hoge is a Podcast Producer at Stakhanov and lives in London.

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This article was produced as part of a paid advertising package. To enquire about advertising with Pod Bible email info@podbiblemag.com

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Song Exploder

Song Exploder is for people that like to know the nuts and bolts. Artists break their songs down to the individual tracks and instruments from a recording, and then tell listeners exactly how a track was made. Host Hrishikesh Hirway asks some of the most well-known musicians in the world about specific decisions that created their most well-known tracks. Hrishikesh actually removes his side of the conversation, so what we hear is a story of how the guests brought their songs to life. Guests include some of the biggest names across all genres: Fleetwood Mac, Billie Eilish, U2, Metallica, Solange, Lorde, Yo-Yo Ma, The Roots, Bon Iver, and more. Listen now on Acast >>

Sodajerker On Songwriting

This show is created and hosted by Simon Barber and Brian O’Connor, otherwise known as the songwriting team Sodajerker.  There are hundreds of episodes devoted to the art and craft of songwriting.  Simon and Brian have interviewed some of the most successful songwriters in the world – from Burt Bacharach talking about bringing songs to life with arrangement, to the one and only Sir Paul McCartney giving us an insight to his process. Listen now on Acast >>

Soundtracking with Edith Bowma‪n

We’ve interviewed Edith Bowman about her passion podcast. In Soundtracking, she sits down with a variety of film directors, actors, producers and composers to talk about the music that inspired them and how they use music in their films, from their current release to key moments in their career. The actual soundtrack is woven into the interview and it’s a really interesting listen. Edith’s spoken to some of the greats: Trent Reznor, Sofia Coppola, Tim Roth, Ben Wheatley and many more. Listen now on Acast >>

Desert Island Discs

Not only is Desert Island Disks a British institution but it’s still one of the best music interview-style podcasts out there. It’s been through a few hosts over the years, but currently Lauren Laverne is in charge. You all know the formula by now: you get eight tracks, a book and a luxury to take to a desert island – what do you choose? Many guests have talked about the soundtrack of their lives, including Ricky Gervais, Yoko Ono, Bruce Springsteen, Dame Judi Dench and so many more… the back-catalogue goes back to the 1970s! Listen now on Acast >>

Off The Beat And Track

I couldn’t complete the list without shouting about my own podcast, could I? It’s released through fellow Pod Bible co-founder Scroobius Pip’s Distraction Pieces Network and for each episode, I ask my guest to pick seven songs which have sound tracked their own creative journey. We hear what the songs mean to them, and what they are reminders of, from growing up to their clubbing days and so much more. I have spoken to some fantastic guests including Foo Fighters, Motley Crue, Idles, Fatboy Slim, Suede, Chic, Sleaford Mods andPublic Enemy. Listen now on Acast >> 

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Do you agree with Stu’s choices? Let us know on Twitter, or get in touch at info@podbiblemag.com if you want to recommend your own top 5 music podcasts.

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ACAST: Let’s kick things off: how did your podcast come about?

Dane: Howard, aka “The Hza”, approached me while I was doing my group podcast, Quotas Full, with some other comedians. It was already an idea I had, but Howard came with some microphones and a free room, and then I came with a series of questions and ideas for guests. We put it together and hey presto, podcast!

Howard: I couldn’t cope with people not hearing Dane talk like he does! We were having lunch and he was speaking his mind about
something and I told him the world needed to hear this side of Dane Baptiste — he embodies the ‘question everything’ mantra.

What do you love about making a podcast?

Dane: I love people watching; it’s a natural part of the comedian’s complex in my opinion. Having a podcast allows you to ‘people listen’, which always allows you to have a much more rounded idea of who somebody is. As children, only slumber parties gave people the opportunity to be intimate with friends and acquaintances — podcasts bring that opportunity back.

Howard: For one hour or so we get to connect with a guest in a totally unique way, not knowing whether we’ll end up going deep or just having a real laugh. Some funny people have come on the show and talked really seriously, which has been amazing. The format of the show keeps it fresh and different every week.

How do you plan an episode?

Dane: It’s a collaborative effort between the Hza and I; we basically look at people we think are both interesting and iconic to our listeners, and we do our best to curate these people for the best meeting of minds.

Howard: Our questions are generated in different ways. I’ll usually know the guests’ questions before the show, and I’ll think of my question in a way to balance against theirs. Dane just does his thing, which works!

Once it’s recorded, what’s the process for getting it out to your listeners?

Howard: It always feels like a chore, but it’s not that bad! I’ve taken a few notes as the show records, but I’ll always edit it from start to finish just to get it flowing as best it can. Someone always coughs, don’t they? Once I’ve edited it we send the individual tracks over to our sound mix master Dee Dhanjal at Audio Culture, so it sounds perfect. Without the mix the show just isn’t the polished product the audience loves. Dee is our unsung/sung hero!

Do you do anything to connect with your listeners?

Dane: Well, the show’s ethos is for listeners to hear what’s being discussed in the hope they’ll question their reality more often. We encourage them to question us and their environment and, when we can via live shows, we can include them in the conversation. In the meantime keep your questions coming, folks!

Howard: We push the socials pretty hard every week and love to mention to our listeners during the show that they should contact us with their questions. The opening of the show is a question from one of the audience, which is a brilliant way to connect with the listeners.

What’s one hot tip for budding podcasters out there?

Dane: Choose a subject or guests who you’ll enjoy speaking about and to, respectively. Keep things exciting and, if not, brief — as the attention span isn’t what it used to be. Think of who you want as listeners and think about how best to engage them. Most of all, have fun — it’s really supposed to be a conversation that interested people wanna hear, so keep it informative and inclusive.

Howard: Grow your show in your own way, tweak it along the way, and just keep going! And enjoy it!

You can listen to Dane Baptise Questions Everything on Acast and all other podcast platforms. Got a podcast or thinking of starting a podcast? Join the world’s biggest podcast network to grow your show and make money. Find out more about joining Acast.

This article came from Issue #013 of Pod Bible magazine, which you can read online or buy in our shop.

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Who are you and what’s your podcast about?

I’m Laura Kidd, a music producer, songwriter and solo artist known as Penfriend, beaming songs and podcast episodes into peoples’ ears from my home studio The Launchpad in Bristol, UK. With “Attention Engineer”, my mission is to encourage creativity in every listener by sharing deep, honest conversations with some of the artists I admire the most. We talk about where ideas come from, celebrate the magic of making things and travel through topics like productivity, mental health, balancing online and offline life and everything in between. It’s aimed at listeners who are interested in how things are made, who might want to be more creative in their own lives and would appreciate a friendly nudge in the right direction.

Why did you decide to start podcasting in the first place?

An “attention engineer” is someone who works for a big tech company, deploying sneaky techniques to keep you stuck to your screens as much as possible. After building up a sizeable audience for my music using the internet, I started feeling concerned that not only was I expected to spend all day on social media telling people about myself, but that I was encouraging my audience to do the same thing. After reading books like “Deep Work” and “Digital Minimalism” by Cal Newport, amongst others, I’ve been working to retain better control over my time and attention, two of the most valuable resources we have.

I’ve always been a performer who wants to meet the people in the audience after the show – the idea of the person on stage being more important than those who paid to come and see them has always felt weird and wrong to me. With my podcast, I want to keep breaking down these barriers by really humanising the artists I speak to – there’s no room for starryness or a load of PR hot air and selling on “Attention Engineer”.

At its basic level, my podcast is an attempt to create something more meaningful, resonant and valuable than a bunch of tweets about my face, and it means so much to me that listeners have found it helpful as well as entertaining.

What was the first podcast you ever listened to?

It was the Ricky Gervais Show – I was an extra on his show “Extras” around the same time as the podcast began (yes, that’s me standing next to David Bowie in the singalong scene!). The first to make a deep impact on me, though, was WTF by Marc Maron. I was introduced to it on a UK tour in 2012 and have listened loyally ever since.

Which podcasts do you take inspiration from?

WTF is a big inspiration – Marc has always asked such great questions about the craft behind creative careers, and I love discussing that sort of thing because I always want to learn how other people make their work. It was due to hearing many guests on WTF talk about their experiences of meditation that led me to try it, which was life-changing. My new interest in mindfulness led me to another podcast that has had a profound effect, “Hurry Slowly” by Jocelyn K. Glei. It’s about mindful productivity, slowing down and going deeper, and I’ve come across so many great people through that series, like Austin Kleon, whose books on creativity are really wonderful. My other favourite is “Creative Pep Talk” by Andy J. Pizza, which is a must-listen for artists of all stripes. I love how Andy’s goals are so clear – each episode is packed with really practical tips on how to supercharge your creative practice and get your work out there. I highly recommend all three.

Who’s your dream guest for the podcast?

I have to say, I’ve had several dream guests on the podcast already – Tanya Donelly, Corin Tucker, Miles Hunt, Mark Chadwick, Lemn Sissay, Bernard Butler…BUT early on in the planning stages for the series I made a list that had Shirley Manson from Garbage at the top of it. I’ve loved her work since I was a teenager, so it would be a total dream come true to have a conversation with her.

What are the biggest lessons you’ve learned so far as a podcaster?

I thought I knew what I was getting into, because I’d already made a podcast series for someone else before starting my own, but the additional workload was an adjustment. I was already a very busy person before I started “Attention Engineer”, but I’m glad I decided from the start to publish consistently every Wednesday. It’s a real commitment, especially as I make the whole thing myself, but it’s so rewarding to get regular feedback from fans of the show. I love hearing that someone has been inspired to pick up the guitar again after years of not playing, or that something discussed on the show sparked an idea, or encouraged them to give something new a try. That’s what it’s all about.

What episode would you say is the perfect introduction to your podcast?

That’s a tough one, but I’d go with ‘Episode 18 – Miles Hunt (The Wonder Stuff)’. I’m thrilled to have known Miles for nearly a decade now, after being a fan since I was kid, and he’s been a big supporter of my music over the years. I’m always very happy to delve deep with guests, whether I’ve met them before or not, but listeners have told me this episode felt like they were overhearing a chat between friends down the pub. We talked about the magic of songwriting, how the internet has changed musicians’ careers and how Covid-19 dashed Miles’ dreams of becoming a long distance truck driver.

Where can Pod Bible readers find out more about you?

Visit my website penfriend.rocks and you’ll find my music, writing and all the podcast episodes, of course. I’ll even send you two free songs immediately when you sign up to my friendly online community. I’m @penfriendrocks on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.

LISTEN ON ACAST

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RISE & SHINE is raising money for new audio makers and podcasters, as part of the project’s second birthday celebrations. The money will support people new to the audio industry to create original work with production companies. 

The crowdfunding campaign aims to raise £2200 in total to pay a least 5 makers suitable day rates for their work. Once the project is funded, new podcasters will be able to submit their ideas for a short audio piece (30 second to 1 minute 30 seconds long). The submissions will be judged by audio professionals from across the industry. RISE & SHINE will then pay the winning podcasters to work with approved production companies for 1-2 days (in total).

This project will help new and underrepresented audio makers break into the podcast and radio industries by making the production process clear and taking away financial barriers. The final pieces will reflect the person behind them, from the style of production to the content. Once finished, established podcasters from across the industry can share and uplift the pieces in their own show as pre, mid or post-roll inserts.

Several production companies are already signed up to the project, and it is currently at 61% of its target. If you want to support open access to the audio industry, head to RISE & SHINE’s Second Birthday Celebration donation page. There are 12 days left of the campaign and you can donate as much as you are able to.

About RISE & SHINE

RISE & SHINE was started in 2019 after podcast producer Sarah Myles sent a simple Tweet offering free audio advice to those that wanted it. She had a big uptake and saw the need for such open conversation about audio as an industry. Since then, RISE & SHINE has been helping new audio makers access the podcast and radio industries regardless of income. Sarah has organised more than 20 free to attend sessions both in person, at King’s Place London, and remotely. Subjects for talks have included Sound Design 101, Podcasting for Kids, and Making Audio Content accessible.

Most recently, she launched the RISE & SHINE How I Got Here podcast to make it clearer how professionals got into the podcast industry in the first place.

Sarah Myles says:

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POD BIBLE: What does a producer consider when taking on a new podcast job?
TOM WHALLEY: There’s a bunch of things. Firstly for me, it’s whether or not I have the time to do it. I help produce a bunch of podcasts for Stakhanov as well as The Huey Show for BBC 6Music, Kermode On Film, The Cycling Podcast, and I present my own monthly show called Service Course, so I’m pretty busy. I’ve got a toddler to look after, too. Secondly, I think about whether it will be a fun podcast to make. I really enjoy complex projects that involve a lot of sound design, so I’m always looking for podcasts where I can be really creative. Thirdly, I like to think about the potential of the podcast. Is there an audience for it? Can we grow it? And will it pay any of my bills? 

PB: How do you strike a balance when producing content for shows that fall under a unifying theme, but are all unique?
TW: Consistent sound design across a range of shows can help link them together, even if the content is radically different. The same goes for featuring familiar voices across your full range of shows. It’s also vital to have your presenters talk about the other shows on the network or feed. There’s also an element of trust involved. Stakhanov have built a really strong audience who trust them to produce new and unique content. Once you’ve got that trust it’s not actually that difficult to give the audience something different on the feed. Just being on that feed is an endorsement in itself.

PB: How much preparation do you do before episodes are recorded?
TW: It totally depends on the show. We recently did a 3 part documentary series for Stakhanov called The Return Of The Premier League. That involved days of selecting music, searching for archive material, and scripting. With the regular Football Ramble Daily shows, it’s not something I need to prepare too much for, I just need to make sure I’ve got all the right clips and I’m across the latest football news. The real prep there is done by the presenters who absolutely know their stuff because they do such a lot of research and are ridiculously well informed.

PB: What is the relationship between a producer and the show’s host?
TW: It’s a pragmatic one. I’ve worked with too many hosts to mention over the years and you work with each one in a slightly different way. I think you just need to work out what your presenter needs and work out how best to facilitate that. The main thing, whatever the relationship is like, is to build up trust. Back in my local radio days, I once had a presenter who trusted me so little that she thought I was waging some kind of psychological war against her. When there’s just 2 of you in a studio at 1am and that’s the kind of vibe you’ve created then things are not going to go well. Blimey, they did not go well that time.

PB: How do you experience other podcasts as a listener? Can you turn off your editing ear and just enjoy shows, or do you always tune in to the things you would have done differently yourself?
TW: I absolutely love listening to other podcasts and it’s a massive source of inspiration for me. I love hearing different production styles and then thinking about how they were done. Occasionally I’ll hear something where I spot an obvious edit, or the levels are out, or they just let a piece run on too long (sometimes this is when I’m listening to my older stuff), but 9 out of 10 times I’m hearing tricks that I want to emulate myself. I’ve learned a lot from shows like Radiolab, Science-ish, Ear Hustle, Crimetown, Atlanta Monster, 30 for 30, and Beef & Dairy Network.

PB: What is the most valuable lesson you have learned as a podcast producer?
TW: It’s all about working with people who understand podcasts. There are too many people who think “I should have a podcast” but they don’t listen to any other pods and are not part of the podcast community. I think you’ve got to really live and breathe podcasting in order to be successful. 

PB: Do you like to have constant collaboration throughout the process of producing a podcast, or do you prefer your roll to be siloed?
TW: For me the hardest part of doing creative work is listening to feedback but it’s honestly the most valuable thing you can have when making podcasts. I like to be able to work alone to some degree but my work benefits so much for having people cast a fresh set of ears over it. Sometimes that can mean you do 10 versions of a podcast before you finally hit the version that is ready to publish, but it makes the end product so much better. 

PB: What is something as a podcast producer you haven’t tried yet but would like to?
TW: I guess the only thing I’ve really yet to do is fiction. I don’t think I’d be any good at writing it but I’d love to bring some great fiction to life. In fact I’ve just had a couple of conversations about a really great comedy script so watch this space.

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POD BIBLE: What appealed to you about the project?
CASSANDRA DENTON: I liked the idea of working on something that not only highlighted incredible women, but was specific in its aim to shine a light upon the kinds of women we don’t see much of in the spotlight. I loved that TLB was all about showcasing how you can be fearless, bold, radical, sexual, and everything in between, at a time of life when everyone thinks you should just sit down and be quiet. I also love that Kate chose women to produce these stories, as I think it is important for women in creative industries (and in general) to see different representations of what getting older can be like.

PB: What does a producer need to consider when tasked with a single episode of a larger series, versus an entire series?
CD: This was my first time working on a single episode for a series. I think it is important to find the balance between making something that has your own stamp on it, whilst making sure it fits within the bigger picture of the series’ vision. It’s good to work to some kind of brief, but also not be afraid to use a bit of individual flair. Ask questions, experiment and have fun with it. With a whole series, you have a lot more control over the overall creative direction, but I think the other points are still valid. 

PB: How do you strike a balance between the right amount of preparation and allowing for “happy accidents” in an episode?
CD: Having some kind of plan is important, because you just feel better going into the situation well prepared. But I think projects like these also need some kind of flexibility. There were a few things we had planned that didn’t pan out because of the weather, so we had to adapt. We also made sure we had some key reference points down, but were not too rigid. It became clear once we started that it was going to be one of those conversations that could just go anywhere! I think it is important to leave room for that, especially as our aim is to capture a personality as well as a story. 

PB: Were there any aspects of what you heard in Series 1 that you kept in mind for your episode, or did you try to avoid letting what previous producers did influence your work?
CD: I think the S1 producers did an amazing job at capturing the magic of the women’s stories. It was good to have an idea of the overall feel of the series, but what made it great was the fact that the episodes captured each woman so brilliantly in different ways. My aim was to let the subject, the amazing PP Arnold, have the most influence on what I would eventually create. So I suppose in that respect, there was some influence from previous producers, who did a great job of this. 

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POD BIBLE: What appealed to you about the project?
ALI GARDNER: I loved the idea of celebrating older women, particularly those who’ve followed an alternative path, and give minus fucks about convention. This series amplifies their wisdom. Vivienne Dick said that you can feel invisible as an older woman and this is unsurprising in a society obsessed with youth over experience. Yet these interviews are a beautiful illustration of what you can learn. And more than once I found myself nodding in vigorous agreement, when recording with Cosey and Vivienne, because their strong sense of self inspired me. Exposure to these brilliant and badass bohemians is life-affirming.

PB: What does a producer need to consider when tasked with a single episode of a larger series, versus an entire series?
AG: This series had a strong vision and a good brief. As a result, the model of a different producer looking after each episode works brilliantly. It’s been fascinating to listen to what others have done and to nerd out on the details of how it was recorded, or edited. It was also a joy to get together with the other producers after series one and I look forward to the crew of two socialising post-corona.

PB: How do you strike a balance between the right amount of preparation and allowing for “happy accidents” in an episode?
AG: Happy accidents are everything. But preparation means you’ve a better chance of connecting with your interviewee. You will be more confident and you have a better chance of steering the conversation if you know your subject, and have a sense of structure, before you turn up. But it’s so important to allow for digressions, to listen carefully, and then pick up on any interesting threads (time permitting). Also, and I realise this is an obvious tip, but hit record early and only switch off when your departure is imminent. Conversationally, we often revisit points or recapitulate with greater fluency.

PB: How did your work on Series 1 inform your approach to your episode in Series 2?
AG: My work on series one informed my decision to do series two. I was busy but knew I’d feel desperately left out and regretful if I’d not been part of The Last Bohemians’ second incarnation. Having spent the intervening 12 months working on an interview series, I also felt more confident in the edit. But I’m always learning. And it’s really healthy to flex your production muscles working on different projects. 

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…always be prepared but be open to surprise and ready to change the story!”

Pod Bible: What appealed to you about this project?
Holly Fisher: I was already a fan of The Last Bohemians and these brilliant characters who were featured on it. Interview podcasts are ten a penny these days but this one really stood out for telling inspiring stories of women who haven’t always played by the rules, through a fascinating cast, thoughtful questions by Kate and some really lovely production by the team she had employed. I thought it was a refreshing take on the one-on-one interview format that so many podcasts are based on, and it made them much more memorable too; each episode has an individual personality – through voice, setting and producer. Kate takes a step back in TLB and really lets the voices of her interviewees sing. You can feel the time, effort and consideration that has been put into each episode. So I was really thrilled when she asked me to come on board for series 2.

PB: What does a producer need to consider when tasked with a single episode of a larger series, versus an entire series?
HF: You have to consider the tone and the themes of the series as a whole. The title is ‘The Last Bohemians’, so you have to think about how your subject fits into that and what stories you want to draw out of their life to follow that narrative. Having the same presenter throughout helps to bring the series together, and I worked really closely with Kate who, of course, has the main vision for the series. I re-listened to some of the past episodes when I was brought onto the project to get into the rhythm and see how other producers brought out the subtleties of these women through sound. Some episodes are thoughtful and slow, and others zip through rip-roaring stories – so that helped to think about how I wanted to represent Zandra in this context. Then there is the technical stuff like putting the final gloss on a programme; we’re all recording on different equipment and editing in different software, so you have to think about things like compressors, final levels etc so that episode 2 isn’t five times louder than episode 1, which could be an assault on the ears of a binge-listener!

PB: How do you strike a balance between the right amount of preparation and allowing for “happy accidents” in an episode?
HF: To prepare for this interview I read, watched and listened to tonnes of interviews with Zandra. I quickly recognised the stories that had been told time and time again and knew which bits we could skim over to find out something new about her. There are so many different facets to her career – design, punk, disco, royalty, travel, famous friends – so we came up with a list of topics we wanted to know more about and tugged at each thread until we found a few things we could run with. You have to be prepared in order to find the new story but it often comes from spending time in the interviewee’s environment, and that’s one of the other great things about this podcast: it always takes place in their homes, which can reveal so much more than in a studio setting. In our case spending two separate sessions with Zandra in her rainbow apartment – while people were working around her – revealed a lot about where she’s at in life and how she approaches her work, and it provided some unexpected interruptions, which formed the structure of the episode. I certainly didn’t get what I expected out of her – but it made me think differently about what ‘bohemian’ means. So I would say always be prepared but be open to surprise and ready to change the story! Let the interviewee lead you into their world.

PB: Were there any aspects of what you heard in Series 1 that you kept in mind for your episode, or did you try to avoid letting what previous producers did influence your work?
HF: I definitely took something from listening back to the first series – the rhythm, pacing, etc. I think you have to be informed by what’s come before to an extent so that you can work within the tone and the texture of the series. But comparing your work and changing it based on previous episodes could alter the timbre of your story and characteristics of your subject. The key thing about this series is that every episode sounds really original, so adopting the voice or style of another episode wouldn’t necessarily work in your favour. You want to be transported into the worlds of these vibrant and unique women and so you have to reflect that sonically.

Holly’s episode of The Last Bohemians launches on April 6th.

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