Talia Augustidis: “Be really gentle with yourself when making personal pieces”

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It’s been eight months since the winners of Content is Queen’s 2022 Micro-Grants for Podcasters Programme were announced, and we are starting to hear the fruits of that scheme. The first sneak-listen was given to the audience of the Micro Grant session at the London Podcast Festival session, but now one of those stories is available to the public.

‘Dead Ends’ by Talia Augustidis was broadcast last night as part of the new series of the BBC’s Lights Out audio documentary. In the episode, Talia offers a personal reflection on how we choose to remember someone, in this case her mother. With a starting point of home videos and crime scene photographs, the episode is about as personal as it gets. In fact, one of the teaser clips features Talia interviewing her father after developing a video of her mum that turned out to be a homemade sex-tape.

I was intrigued to learn more about how Talia navigated the line between emotion, embarrassment and audio production in such a unique piece.

This came out of the Content Is Queen micro grant – what do you think it was about your application that stuck out?

I think first of all the power of the story: trying to discover my Mum from these insufficient fragments. Then also the concept, I pitched to them a version where it appears in an online exhibition in a choose-your-own-adventure style way, which will come out next year. And finally the access, I already had all of this tape from years of recording.

How important was it for you to have this kind of development space?

Hugely important. It’s such a personal piece that I really needed a lot of time and space to leave it and come back, which the micro-grant allowed me, while also pushing me to actually go into the tapes and sift through them. It was really helpful too because I have a full-time job so I could only really work on it in the evenings and weekends, so I don’t think I would have been able to make it for this Lights Out series without the ideas I developed during the micro-grant process.

Why was audio the right medium for this project?

Ultimately it is a story about “images”: home videos, a sex tape, crime scene photographs and memories. And it’s about me not being able to access those images, for a variety of different reasons. So audio is an interesting medium to choose, because it allows for privacy for me and my family while also replicating the feeling of not being able to access the images we are discussing.

Did you take inspiration from any podcasts in particular before you started?

Not consciously. I tried as best I could to work from the tape first, that’s why each chapter is in a different style. But of course unconsciously I am constantly picking up on influences and inspiration. That being said, I am always inspired by the work of Nanna Hauge Kristensen. I think she creates the most beautiful, human, intimate audio of anyone I’ve ever heard, which I try to channel in certain moments of this piece.

As the Producer you obviously had to watch the videos and then speak to your dad about it. How much did you have to re-listen to that interview when producing the episode? And did your emotions and reactions change with re-listens?

I did that particular interview (the one in the audiogram) with my Dad in 2021, and I only listened to it a few months ago for the first time when editing it. I sort of shut it out for a long time I guess. Then I listened once all the way through and just tried to really listen with my body for the part that made me feel things, including discomfort, and those are the parts that stayed in. Of course I had to listen many more times when refining and cutting down, which usually makes me a bit numb to the emotions of the tape, but with that section it always made me laugh and cringe like it did the first time actually. I guess talking to your Dad about your dead mum’s sex tape is never going to feel normal and comfortable, even on the 100th listen.

At some stage you must have had to bring in new listeners to help you produce – and then hand over to the public to listen – how did you know the right time to do that and how does that feel now?

This is where I really want to give a huge shout out to El and Alan from Falling Tree. I found it really hard at the beginning to send drafts of the pieces. It’s such an immensely personal piece, and sharing it with the public feels like sharing a little part of yourself with the world, but sharing first drafts is like an open wound. And when the pitch was accepted for Lights Out I was so relieved to be working with Falling Tree on it, because I trust them. It really taught me the power of having a good editor, not even just for feedback, but even just knowing that you have someone sensitive that you trust allowed me to really push and finish the project.

Do you have any advice for budding producers?

On the topic of Dead Ends, I would say be really gentle with yourself when making personal pieces. If it’s your first time, I wouldn’t recommend making something with hard deadlines. Give yourself time and space to walk away and come back, without the pressure of disappointing anyone external. The first time I made a personal piece was at university (actually it was my first ever piece, The Sound Collector), dredging up the past became really overwhelming and I had to take a few months away from it and come back when I was ready. So be kind to yourself, check in, and don’t put yourself in a situation where taking space isn’t possible.

Dead Ends wouldn’t exist without two years of recording, one year of space, six months of development time from Content is Queen and a couple months of final edits.

Anything else you’d like readers to know?

I pitched a version of this story to the BBC twice — once to Radio 3 and once to Radio 4 — and it was rejected both times. So I want to say thank you to Content is Queen for taking a chance on it, and for Falling Tree for not giving up on it and putting it in their Lights Out series, which features audio documentaries that do something a little different, and take a closer look at news stories. This project has been so immensely cathartic and I’m really glad it found such a lovely home in such good company.

Listen to Lights Out on BBC Sounds, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other popular podcast apps >>