Those familiar with nonfiction audio documentary maker Jess Shane, may know her as the producer of BBC 4 Lights Out: Accounts and Accountability which explored the ethics and monetary value of storytelling, so this is nothing new to Jess. In the five part series Radiotopia presents Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative, she takes it further

In its first episode Jess recalls making ‘Perfect Woman’ for CBC’s Love Me. Perfect Woman is the story of her reading her ex-boyfriend’s diary and changing herself depending on what he wrote. At the time, Jess found making it therapeutic because she got to tell the story to her own accord. Things started to get complex when she received an email from a Hollywood producer about adapting the story for a documentary.The producer promised this big platform to tell her story, even though she would have no editorial control. This interaction made Jess doubt the benefits of documentary making.

I sat down with Jess to discuss the process of making the show and what the aims for the series were.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity

JESS: My series is particularly engaged with the relationship between neoliberalism and personal storytelling because the documentary industry relies on the packaged morsel of the individual story in order to mass produce products. And it works because culturally we’ve been told that telling your story will be somehow cathartic, redemptive, brave, useful, et cetera. And so lots of people are talking about the importance of telling your story on an emotional level, but I’m trying to look at how personal storytelling operates in the world of trade and austerity.

You let us into your inner monologue and the many frustrations producers face. What was the aim of highlighting these issues?

JESS: Audiences are used to being handed the story on a silver platter. I wanted people to become hyper aware of the work and the choices that go into preparing said silver platter. A lot of people who’ve listened to the series have said, “can you stop navel gazing and telling us about the process and just give us the story? But this is the point I wanted to make you look behind the curtain whether you wanted to see it or not. And so I think that even if it creates discomfort, making audiences grapple with the fact that what they’re listening to is a construction, [that] is a useful way to make listeners feel less like audiences and more engaged, more like they are actually part of the mechanics of the sale and consumption of stories.

During their audition process to make one possible participant more comfortable, you say that they can ask you questions. What’s your advice to make sure the questions do not get too personal and make sure we divert back to the interviewee?

JESS: Well, I think that it’s okay for people to have personal questions. I think that to pretend that a purely business or a purely professional relationship is happening is dishonest. Obviously in this series I play with boundaries and push boundaries in a way that I think is irresponsible and that’s not an accident. I think depending on the relationship, there’s no one-size-fits-all. So I think, be open with people, but also be thoughtful about how much you want to share.

I think that in many ways the least you can do is to give people part of the benefit of being interviewed, which is arguably if the story isn’t going to lead to meaningful policy change or change that person’s life – which a majority of stories don’t do. Those are the outliers, not the norm – at the very least, you can give them a meaningful experience of recording.

But with that in mind, I think it’s important for people to be clear: I am doing a job. We’re acting like friends, but for the purpose of this interview, I’m doing a job and we’re not friends, and my job is to take what you say now and to turn it into something shorter, more concise. That’s ultimately what I want this piece to be about. I feel like being clear about making a distinction between the joys of the interview process and the horrors of having yourself vulnerable – your voice out in the world and no longer belonging to you in the same way, to coin a phrase by the TV producer featured in the episode.

That openness is evident through your relationship with one of the interviewees, Judy, an unhoused widow in her 70’s . We experience a blossoming friendship that has its conflicting moments, especially when Judy actually needs help regarding her personal situation. What did you learn from blurring the lines?

JESS: I was like, “I can’t promise that whatever I make about you is going to help you with your problems, but I have skills that might be helpful”. And there was a moment deep in the process where I realised that the methodology I thought would be helpful, actually it wasn’t, but could be harmful to her.

I also learned that in my attempt to help, I was not actually being a very good listener. I was thinking about what I thought was best for her as opposed to listening to what she thought was best for her. And that’s not even a lesson about journalism, that’s a lesson about life that can be applied across many spectrums. There was a moment where I just was like, “I don’t know what I’m doing here”. By totally throwing these boundaries that journalists normally have out the window, it was unknown waters and it was evident because I wasn’t necessarily being the most mindful. I don’t think I made anything worse, but I don’t know. I don’t think I improved anything and I realised I was out of my depth.

Away from the role of documentary maker, are there things that you learned personally about yourself?

JESS: I used to think that finding the perfect subject with a life story that was already shocking, heartbreaking, or transformative in some way was the kind of story that I had the power to make beautiful for them and for the world. I really am not interested in telling personal life stories. I’m not interested in turning people’s lives into products anymore and haven’t been for a long time. I’m interested in finding places where there are shared goals with potential subjects.

In the show there is a focus on the consequences of the Top Down approach where the audience gets to understand the power that the decision makers have and how little the subjects have. Going forward, what approach are you taking?

JESS: I’m interested in a framework of collaboration that is not “Top Down”. So in the series, I kind of show what not to do with collaboration. You can’t just call something collaboration and also still call all the shots. I think that I’m much more mindful of who I select as my collaborators and make sure that there’s a shared stake in these shared goals. And then we come up with a framework for collaboration together at the start.

That often relies on having a similar sense of media literacy. So [in Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative] there were huge power dynamics and that was intentional. Normally, I’m not trying to work with people where there are such big power dynamics. Maybe that will change over time as I become more experienced. But for now, I would rather work with people where I feel like we are operating with the same knowledge and in some ways privilege and power.

When talking about power dynamics and privilege I think about Ernesto’s story, the 20 year old model and recovering addict. In his episode, you admit that somebody else may have told his story better. What advice do you have for producers that struggle to navigate an interviewee’s story?

JESS: I was trying to make a point about how budgetary concerns and timelines dictate how ambitious a producer can be in the stories they tell. And in this case, what I realised about Ernesto’s story was that the story that he was sort of gesturing to, he wasn’t an appropriate central, sole subject. The story, actually, would need a much more systemic perspective, and that would require a timeline and a reporting budget and a scope that the project wasn’t really set up for.
I wanted to reveal why the personal story is often the fallback: because it’s actually cheaper and easier to make. But I do think that it’s always really important to acknowledge your positionality and ask – why am I the right person to tell this story? And if not, how can I make this work?

Something that I say in this series, and something I still stand by is if you are taking a not-Top-Down approach to collaboration, it doesn’t necessarily matter if you are the wrong person to tell the story. So long as you set yourself up in a collaborative framework where you are not being the expert on someone else’s life, you are letting your subjects truly lead. And that means factoring in a lot more time, making sure that you set up the collaborative process from the start, making sure that you are, and whoever’s funding you or distributing you, is also signed up for that. At the same time, I think it’s worthwhile to be wary that not everybody should tell every story.

There are rules stated in the first episode about journalism must nots and throughout the process you obviously bend them to make a point. I know this was an experiment, but are there any practices you’re taking for future projects?

JESS: Shared goals, much greater transparency, acknowledgement of the way in which documentary storytelling does operate as an exchange and clarifying the exchange, but in tandem with this idea of shared goals, and I also pay people whenever I can.

[NOTE: Paying subjects is one of the first rules that Jess throws out the window in the series, a subject she’s also written about. She expands on why this is important.]

JESS: I don’t think that paying people is more coercive than somebody promising to tell your story to the media already. I have no problem with splitting whatever I make with the people whose voices and work is featured in the projects. I come up with a split that feels right for the project based on the time and effort that’s put in and based on what I can afford and what we both can afford. I am very transparent about what I’m making with them, and we come up with a rate that feels good.

Listen to Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative on Apple Podcast, Spotify and other popular podcast apps >>

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In January 2012, a message appeared on 4Chan, the anarchic online messaging board which had become a playground for hackers and conspiracy theorists alike:

“Hello. We are looking for highly intelligent individuals. To find them, we have devised a test. Good Luck, 3301.”

Accompanying the text was a cryptic image – a black-and-white cicada. What users didn’t know at the time was that this post marked the first step in one of the most complex puzzles to rock the internet age – later known as Cicada 3301.

The murky origins of the story led Nicky Anderson and Tommie Trelawny down a digital rabbit hole, which led to a year-long investigation into where these puzzles came from and who was behind them. Following on from their first investigative series The Interruption, The World’s Hardest Puzzle is the second investigation in Stak’s Archive saga.

From riddles to impenetrable codes and US military conspiracies, one thing became clear: Cicada 3301 was no ordinary puzzle. It was an intellectual minefield shrouded in mystery. Speaking to those who found themselves at the heart of the mystery, Nicky & Tommie trek through the winding, often murky history of the internet, uncovering the admirable integrity some corners of the internet still hold, as well as the sometimes sinister consequences of revealing too much of our lives online.

At the helm, delivering her on-mic debut as well as producing the series was Stak’s Nicky Anderson. We caught up with Nicky to see how she felt about being a primary voice of the podcast and the process in telling such an intricate story.

Hi Nicky! So, how was it going from the producer role, to stepping onto the mic for the first time?

At the beginning, it was seriously nerve-wrecking but I knew it was something I wanted to do so I really just had to throw myself into it. Of course there were times where I doubted myself but I’m so glad I’ve added another string to my bow, it was a fantastic experience. I already can’t wait for the next!

And how did you find the Cicada story? What made you think it was worth making a podcast about?

Tommie told me about it one day and I just couldn’t get it out of my head after that! It had everything a brilliant mystery needs: puzzles, clues, dedicated followers, real world locations and more. It was something refreshing, interesting and a bit bizarre that I wanted more people to know about!

When delving into something as complex as Cicada 3301, what was your process in trying to make it sound clear for the listener whilst trying to understand it yourself?

It was a very humbling experience! The amount of behind the scenes research that went into the pre-production felt like it never really ended. But no one says research can’t be content itself – if you’re making a documentary about a topic and you’re having a meeting about it with your production team, stick on your mic and start recording. All this tape will not only help you when it comes to scripting later on as you’ll be able to re-listen to your conversation, but it can also be used as ‘real life’ investigation tape.

Lastly, what do you think are the main differences between working with Tommie as a producer and now also a co-narrator?

Naturally there were challenges, there were times where each of us would end up slipping back into the producer / host dynamic. It took some time to get used to and I did have to keep reminding myself that this time round we were co-creators. I was very fortunate to go through this experience and change with Tommie. I think we make a good team no matter what the dynamic.

Listen and subscribe to Archive: The World’s Hardest Puzzle by searching for the show wherever you get your podcast, or by clicking this link.

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This article was created in partnership with Stak.

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It’s been eight months since the winners of Content is Queen’s 2022 Micro-Grants for Podcasters Programme were announced, and we are starting to hear the fruits of that scheme. The first sneak-listen was given to the audience of the Micro Grant session at the London Podcast Festival session, but now one of those stories is available to the public.

‘Dead Ends’ by Talia Augustidis was broadcast last night as part of the new series of the BBC’s Lights Out audio documentary. In the episode, Talia offers a personal reflection on how we choose to remember someone, in this case her mother. With a starting point of home videos and crime scene photographs, the episode is about as personal as it gets. In fact, one of the teaser clips features Talia interviewing her father after developing a video of her mum that turned out to be a homemade sex-tape.

I was intrigued to learn more about how Talia navigated the line between emotion, embarrassment and audio production in such a unique piece.

This came out of the Content Is Queen micro grant – what do you think it was about your application that stuck out?

I think first of all the power of the story: trying to discover my Mum from these insufficient fragments. Then also the concept, I pitched to them a version where it appears in an online exhibition in a choose-your-own-adventure style way, which will come out next year. And finally the access, I already had all of this tape from years of recording.

How important was it for you to have this kind of development space?

Hugely important. It’s such a personal piece that I really needed a lot of time and space to leave it and come back, which the micro-grant allowed me, while also pushing me to actually go into the tapes and sift through them. It was really helpful too because I have a full-time job so I could only really work on it in the evenings and weekends, so I don’t think I would have been able to make it for this Lights Out series without the ideas I developed during the micro-grant process.

Why was audio the right medium for this project?

Ultimately it is a story about “images”: home videos, a sex tape, crime scene photographs and memories. And it’s about me not being able to access those images, for a variety of different reasons. So audio is an interesting medium to choose, because it allows for privacy for me and my family while also replicating the feeling of not being able to access the images we are discussing.

Did you take inspiration from any podcasts in particular before you started?

Not consciously. I tried as best I could to work from the tape first, that’s why each chapter is in a different style. But of course unconsciously I am constantly picking up on influences and inspiration. That being said, I am always inspired by the work of Nanna Hauge Kristensen. I think she creates the most beautiful, human, intimate audio of anyone I’ve ever heard, which I try to channel in certain moments of this piece.

As the Producer you obviously had to watch the videos and then speak to your dad about it. How much did you have to re-listen to that interview when producing the episode? And did your emotions and reactions change with re-listens?

I did that particular interview (the one in the audiogram) with my Dad in 2021, and I only listened to it a few months ago for the first time when editing it. I sort of shut it out for a long time I guess. Then I listened once all the way through and just tried to really listen with my body for the part that made me feel things, including discomfort, and those are the parts that stayed in. Of course I had to listen many more times when refining and cutting down, which usually makes me a bit numb to the emotions of the tape, but with that section it always made me laugh and cringe like it did the first time actually. I guess talking to your Dad about your dead mum’s sex tape is never going to feel normal and comfortable, even on the 100th listen.

At some stage you must have had to bring in new listeners to help you produce – and then hand over to the public to listen – how did you know the right time to do that and how does that feel now?

This is where I really want to give a huge shout out to El and Alan from Falling Tree. I found it really hard at the beginning to send drafts of the pieces. It’s such an immensely personal piece, and sharing it with the public feels like sharing a little part of yourself with the world, but sharing first drafts is like an open wound. And when the pitch was accepted for Lights Out I was so relieved to be working with Falling Tree on it, because I trust them. It really taught me the power of having a good editor, not even just for feedback, but even just knowing that you have someone sensitive that you trust allowed me to really push and finish the project.

Do you have any advice for budding producers?

On the topic of Dead Ends, I would say be really gentle with yourself when making personal pieces. If it’s your first time, I wouldn’t recommend making something with hard deadlines. Give yourself time and space to walk away and come back, without the pressure of disappointing anyone external. The first time I made a personal piece was at university (actually it was my first ever piece, The Sound Collector), dredging up the past became really overwhelming and I had to take a few months away from it and come back when I was ready. So be kind to yourself, check in, and don’t put yourself in a situation where taking space isn’t possible.

Dead Ends wouldn’t exist without two years of recording, one year of space, six months of development time from Content is Queen and a couple months of final edits.

Anything else you’d like readers to know?

I pitched a version of this story to the BBC twice — once to Radio 3 and once to Radio 4 — and it was rejected both times. So I want to say thank you to Content is Queen for taking a chance on it, and for Falling Tree for not giving up on it and putting it in their Lights Out series, which features audio documentaries that do something a little different, and take a closer look at news stories. This project has been so immensely cathartic and I’m really glad it found such a lovely home in such good company.

Listen to Lights Out on BBC Sounds, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other popular podcast apps >>

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Today we’re learning more about Alex Jungius, Director of  This Is Distorted, a multi-award winning content agency with audio at its heart. The company has a real focus on the power of audio to emotionally connect people, but it’s also forward looking and embracing the developments in podcasting, new technologies and video options for the audience.

We asked Alex to tell us more about his love of podcasting and where he thinks the future of podcasting will take us…

Tell us a bit about who you and your role at This Is Distorted!

For the past 25 years, I’ve been immersed in the world of audio and radio, working in everything from hospital radio to commercial radio, and now in the realm of podcasts and on-demand audio. I started out focusing on imaging and sound design before transitioning to show production, executive producing radio programs, and eventually overseeing entire radio stations.

In 2015, I took a leap of faith and left mainstream radio to launch Distorted, which at the time was still a relatively new venture in the burgeoning world of podcasts. However, that risk has paid off, as it turned out to be the best decision I’ve ever made. At Distorted, my primary responsibility is to expand our speech-based offerings, working with companies, brands, and individuals on their audio projects.
Nowadays, we refer to ourselves as an audio agency, as we’ve evolved beyond being a production house. We aim to solve our clients’ problems by utilizing audio as a solution, and we’ve expanded our services to encompass everything on the periphery of an audio project, including video, social media, marketing, and more. The audio landscape is constantly evolving, and it’s a thrilling time to be a part of this industry.

This Is Distorted podcast studio is based in the North of England, at the centre of Leeds

Why podcasts? What is it you love about the medium?

Having spent many years working in the highly structured and regulated world of radio, the freedom and flexibility of podcasts have been a breath of fresh air for me. I’m fascinated by the fact that there are no set rules or conventions to follow, and that the medium provides an almost limitless canvas for creativity. This has led to an explosion of diverse styles, approaches, and voices entering the audio space, many of whom may never have considered working in audio if not for the world of podcasts.

Despite the fact that podcasts have been around for some time now, I believe we’re still in the early stages of the medium’s evolution. Looking back, we will likely view this as a period of growth and experimentation, and the landscape of podcasting will undoubtedly be very different in the years to come as the industry continues to mature and establish itself as a significant player in people’s content consumption habits.

What was the first podcast you ever listened to?

Apart from dabbling with creating podcast content for the radio stations I was working at, the first main podcast I listened to as an avid fan was the The Ricky Gervais Show. It felt so different to what you’d hear on air and like a new format had been born.

You recently were part of the team behind Synthetic Stories, the first AI created podcast – where did that idea come from?

The idea came from a conversation over lunch in our office. We’d been chatting about how AI could influence our industry and I suggested how easy it would be to piece together an AI podcast series. From there, the idea snowballed into a quick project that the whole team got behind and within 24 hours the project was live and in people’s ears.

While it was easy to put together and a lot of fun, the resulting product was still worlds away from what humans can create. Nevertheless, I believe that AI will soon become an integral part of the production process, if it isn’t already, for many people. It’s a powerful tool for generating ideas and streamlining production processes, although it cannot replace human creativity (at least, not yet).

What do you think the future of podcasting holds?

Two things for me, I’d like to see podcasting double down on niches. It felt like the beginnings of podcasting allowed anyone to create content on the subject matter they were most passionate about and that created a home grown ecosystem of super niche podcasts serving passionate listeners across the globe. I feel like the medium has become too much about big names and dumbed down mainstream content. It might have an audience but does it really add anything to the content you can get elsewhere.

The other area is video. This can be a polarising subject but I think video has a huge part to play in podcasting’s next phase of growth. To help with discoverability is the obvious answer but also to elevate the audio content and compliment it, rather than replace it. I’d like to think of podcasting as a style of content now rather than treating it purely as audio only. Podcasting needs to break free of the RSS feed if it’s going to evolve and thrive and video and new platforms will help push the medium into more people’s ears (and eyes).

And what would you like to see more of in the podcast space?

Crafting compelling fiction content for podcasts is a challenging task. It can be expensive and difficult to create a show that sounds both professional and engaging. However, despite the difficulties, I believe there is a vast potential for original fiction content in podcasts that is yet to be fully realized.

At Distorted, we have considered developing fiction podcasts in the past. However, we have always been hesitant due to the high costs involved and our desire to produce content that meets our standards. I am hopeful that new developments in production technology will make producing high-quality fiction podcasts more accessible and cost-effective in the future. With the right resources and creative talent, I believe that original fiction shows have the potential to become a significant part of the podcasting landscape.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet, but you would really like to work on?

True crime! I love a true crime podcast and we’ve got a folder of original true crime ideas I’d love to bring to life one day!

This Is Distorted is a multi-award winning content agency with audio at its heart. Passionate about emotionally connecting brands, artists and businesses with audiences through the power of sound.

Distorted content is broadcast across multiple platforms from traditional radio to online streaming services. Reaching an audience of over 10 million listeners each month, working with over 450 partner radio stations and networks, and regularly take the number 1 spot in the itunes podcast charts. Find out more at thisisdistorted.com.

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This article was produced as part of a paid advertising package. To enquire about advertising with Pod Bible email info@podbiblemag.com.

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A couple of weeks ago, I suggested Pilot Season 2023 as the ‘New Pod of the Week’ in our newsletter. But it’s not quite accurate to call it a ‘pod’ given that Pilot Season 2023 is launching 5 separate productions into the world. The new show by Unedited is showcasing five ‘pilot episodes’ of shows that cover a wide range of topics, from hidden statistics of curry houses, to Reading Festival, and sneakers.

I was so intrigued by the idea, that when Unedited got in touch to offer an interview with Bernard P. Achampong (Founder of Unedited and genius behind Pilot Season) I HAD to say yes, and find out how it was behind the scenes on this new style of format…

Pod Bible: It seems like there are more and more worthy podcast ideas vying for funding and attention. Was that part of the reasoning behind Pilot Season?

Bernard P. Achampong: Pilot Season was a response to the question of how do we, as a production company, stand out. The challenge with a lot of industries is that they’re quite rigid and there’s little flexibility across genres. So if you come in as a comedy producer, the tendency is you’re looked at as a comedy producer only throughout your career – unless you then make a breakout hit in True Crime, for instance, and then you become the True Crime, and maybe Comedy guys. For Unedited, we came in, after May 2020, when the agenda was strongly steered towards diversity and inclusion. What that doesn’t do is give us a clear editorial or genre identity. So we become the diversity guys, but not the immersive sound design guys or the social history guys.

With Pilot Season, we wanted to give a more distinctive voice to Unedited rather than just being the Black-owned company that does ‘black’ stuff. Unedited is a company that does great stuff and just happens to have a culturally diverse team.

PB: How important is it for podcasts to have this kind of development space?

Bernard: With so many content options, it’s becoming more and more important for audio companies to have their own unique voice. With the devices that we all have in front of us, like our mobile phones, smart TVs and other connected devices, the democracy around consuming content is a lot flatter. You can as easily watch a Netflix series as you can listen to a BBC Sounds show. So for production companies, that distinctiveness is becoming more and more important. It’s like a badge of authenticity. Back in the day, we would talk about NPR and listeners knew what NPR stood for in terms of its values. I think production companies like Gimlet, Somethin’ Else or Unedited, need to have that distinctiveness in order to be able to cut through to audiences on all platforms.

PB: How did these shows come to Unedited? Were they pitched to you or were these in- house ideas?

Bernard: All of these are ideas that have originated in-house. Most have been through the journey with different commissioners, a couple received some development funding – we backed ourselves with the others.

PB: I certainly want to hear more of these shows! What would be the process now to getting a series made? How soon might we hear them?

Bernard: The pilots are available for commissioning, licensing and fund partnerships. We are offering these to broadcasters or streaming platforms, or for funders to come directly to us to create them. We’re still limited by the amount of resources we have to create these series’ and that takes us back to speaking to the BBC, Apple, Spotify and Audible. However, what we have done is the proof of concept stage. Once you get to hear it, you go, “Okay, I know what I want to change” or “I know what I want to do and I know where it’s going to live”, rather than having to do that off a sheet of paper and work a bit in the dark.

PB: How can listeners support the podcasts?

Bernard: Listen and share. Share it with people that you know, comment and like on podcast platforms and give us feedback about the things that work for you. As we go into series production, God willing and fingers crossed, all of that feedback, we’ll have a lot of insights from listeners, which will help to shape the ideas.

PB: Anything else you’d like readers to know?

Bernard: I feel that Pilot Season should give the industry permission to be bolder. The audio industry, especially in the UK, has lived in the shadow of the behemoth of the BBC, which is not a bad thing. The BBC has been established for over 100 years in terms of industry standard, and sometimes above industry standard, for the craft of audio including scripting, writing and production performance. The BBC has created such a high bar, which is unnatural in most territories. It doesn’t exist in most territories. So other territories have had to be a lot more entrepreneurial. Now in the UK, we’ve got a space where other territories are opening up to us, and I still think that the UK is the best place to make audio in the world. For other production companies to exist, and attract business from other parts of the world, we have to become a lot more entrepreneurial. We have to embrace that spirit of selling and creating original ideas for not just broadcasters but also brands and other forms of funding. We’ve got to be really smart about how we attract people to our industry.

Listen to Pilot Season 2023 now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other popular podcast apps >>

Connect with Bernard Achampong on LinkedIn. Thanks to Chris Mitchell for transcribing this interview.

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Greg and Stuart both have music journalism backgrounds and an ingrained knowledge of the podcast world. Stuart explains how and why their journey with Franz Ferdinand began:

Stuart: Having worked together on independent music magazine Loud And Quiet for years, myself and Greg launched the production company New Allotment in 2020. We have learned how to make podcasts since 2016 and we wanted to set up a podcast production company that could make shows about artists away from Loud And Quiet editorial. We know Domino, Franz’s record label, really well, and they came to us with news that in 2022 they’d be releasing a greatest hits collection for Franz Ferdinand titled Hits To The Head. They told us about this idea to tell the story of the band in a podcast and asked if we’d be interested in making it. Of course we bit their hand off!

From concept to release, what was the process like? How much research, how much production work, and how did you find the whole process?

Stuart: First and foremost we worked out the format of the show – the best way to tell the story, in how many episodes, will it be narrated, will it feature the interviewer’s voice; big questions that would then inform everything.

We had a brilliant lead researcher in Fergal Kinney who mapped out the story of the band in a document informed by Domino’s press archive, and that then allowed us to work out who we’d interview. We then interviewed all the contributors throughout October, November and December. January was a month dedicated to editing, which was where the actual story telling started. We had 30 odd hours of audio to get down to around 2.5 hours over 4 episodes. We were also writing the narration script as we went, which we knew was going to be recorded by Rose Matafeo once we had everything in place and were happy with the edits.

It really was a mammoth job, which we realised most in the edit. Personally, I found that part really rewarding. It was like a giant puzzle, fitting together the audio we had (of course we had little idea what people were going to say on record beforehand) and making it come alive with the band’s music. Of course it helped that the story itself is so compelling, and that everyone we spoke to were so good at telling it. It was just a joy to be honest. Personally I didn’t stop to think how intimidating it was, which is probably for the best. It was all there for us to slot together, and I think a lot of that came from our early research and planning our episodes and interviews properly.

The response from the podcast world has been significant, how has the audience reaction been, and crucially, what has the band’s feedback been like?

Greg: It was really pleasing to see such an immediate, positive reaction from Franz’s huge energetic international fanbase. Even within the first couple of hours of release seeing comments and listens coming in from every corner of the world. That meant within the first couple of days of release the podcast made its way up the charts, reaching the top of the Apple Podcasts Music chart and featuring highly on others. It’s also been a thrill, a couple of months since release, that people are still coming across the podcast. Because of its evergreen nature we hope it’s a podcast people will come to discover and enjoy for years to come. Rightfully there’s lots of interest from the music community in making podcasts, but I think this was a great example of the right band, a compelling story and the ideal format. We hope to work with other collaborators to do more of it.

Why this podcast – what was it about Franz Ferdinand and their story?

Stuart: It felt like a perfect one for us. Greg and I were both at university when Franz broke, and they really did change British guitar music. Take Me Out charting at 3 after a long period of terrible nu metal and lots of straight up pop being in the charts was really exciting. That was 2003, and even since then not many bands have blown up in that way, so quickly. There’s a lot of appeal in that story alone – what’s it like to be in a band that goes from playing in a friend’s house to opening the Grammys in a year? But beyond that I’ve always been fascinated with what happens after that. How do you keep that going? What’s it like to constantly tour as much as Franz famously have? How does it feel when a member leaves?

I loved hearing about it all, and the band were very open about it, which we were really thankful for. We thought it was important to interview them all separately for that reason. It added to the production time of course, but meant that everyone could speak freely. While editing, I must have listened to the featured songs a thousand times, and yet I still really like them.

As a four part series, how does the podcast break down – with each episode what can we expect to hear and learn?

Stuart: We start in Glasgow with the band forming. Bob and Alex are trying to get a band together when they meet Nick at a party who lies to them in order to join. Nick says he’s a drummer but he really isn’t. There’s a highlight in this episode where Alex retells how he and Nick met having a fight over a bottle of vodka. We’ve also got some rare early recordings and demos in this first episode, as the band talk about their formation, playing gigs at art school house parties and getting interest from the music industry.

Episode two is all about the recording of their debut album, the impact of it and the single Take Me Out, what went into that unusual song and the extremely glamorous world it suddenly thrust the band into. Expect stories of meeting David Bowie and parties in Hollywood.

There was a lot to pack into episode three and the band reached breaking point, resulting in a punch up in Paris, and they recorded two more albums whilst barely taking a breath from world tours. Episode 4 is the band patching themselves up and reinventing themselves for what’s going to come next. Two members leave and three join. It’s a hell of a story really. Like I say, few bands have had the highs of Franz this century. And we hope that in hearing them tell the story people will get a real sense of that time in British music, and just how important Franz Ferdinand’s songs are. It helped, of course, that we had Rose narrating the series, who was the icing on the cake.

Words So Leisured – The Story of Franz Ferdinand can be found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all good podcast platforms.

Main photo credit Franz Ferdinand by David Edwards.

The post Words So Leisured – The Story of Franz Ferdinand appeared first on POD BIBLE.

Despite having no children to listen with, I’ve recently stormed through the catalogue of creation stories pulled together on In The Beginning. The show is made with children in mind (and with children in the cast!) and children will enjoy the playful way of connecting to other cultures through the sound design, acting and storytelling. But Producers Lucia Scazzocchio and Hawa Khan have created a show that is also perfect for adults wanting a light-hearted snippet of global culture in their podcast playlists.

I sent some questions over to Lucia to find out more about how the team pulled this show together…

What were the origins of this podcast – take us back to the Beginning of the show!

In the Beginning… Hawa Khan my co-writer/producer and I created a new family audio tour for the Tower of London where historical events are experienced through the eyes of two child ghosts. We had so much fun writing and producing together that we decided we would like to something else. Hawa is a natural storyteller and we are quite passionate about traditional stories and myths. We both come from quite mixed backgrounds and realised that many of these stories aren’t that well known in the UK. We wanted to tell these stories in a way that fully represented multi-cultural Britain in voices and styles of speech familiar to young audiences.

We pitched the idea to all the children’s networks we could think of, but kept hitting a wall. We then applied for an Audio Content Fund and partnered in Fun Kids who backed the idea from the start. We applied three times before the project was finally funded.

Did you take inspiration from any podcasts in particular before you started?

Not directly, I listen to many, many different podcasts and I did immerse myself in audio drama, especially the more immersive productions from QCode or Gimlet. There are some children’s podcasts that possibly inspired on a subliminal level, like Wow in The World, Radio Lab for kids and I was an avid listener of audio books when I was child. I bought by niece a Yoto player and rediscovered many of the stories I had listened to on cassette.

Co-producer and voice actor, Hawa Khan

The show was originally a radio show and made into a podcast – can you give us a little insight to how it worked between yourself as Producers/Writers and then the actors/the Fun Kids radio station.

The radio show and the podcast are the same format. I would say the big difference when producing for a radio station is that everything has to fit exactly into the time allocated, which isn’t the case for podcasts!

The process was: Hawa and I first selected, then researched the stories, gathering as much information as we could about the people and places these stories come from.

Many of these stories are from ancient indigenous cultures and have been passed down over generations and some are still very much part of religious and cultural life. We wanted to make sure we properly acknowledged the people who these stories belong to and spent a lot of time researching the names, places and religious aspects.

Leona Fensome did a brilliant job helping us contact academics and indigenous elders to make sure we used the correct language and terms.
The next stage was writing the scripts. Hawa and I co-wrote each script by trying to embody the characters, Hawa is a brilliant voice artist so she developed the characters as we went along, deciding what accents, intonation and personality each character would have. We had decided from the outset that the voice of each character would be decided by their personality rather than from where the story is from. This means a Chinese dragon has a West Indian accent, or the Taino Sun is based on an Indian Raj. Hawa then worked with the children and adult actors to develop their characters and give them voice. The children played themselves, but the adult actors are all experienced in channelling diverse accents and characters so they really brought that into the studio when we recorded. We had already worked with some of the children and actors on the Tower of London project so this was helpful.

Once everything was recorded I worked on the pacing and sound design. Fun Kids helped us hone the original application and concept but they didn’t intervene during production. They trusted us to produce these stories in our own way. The final addition to this series becoming a podcast, was the creation of the artwork by Delphine – each episode has its own image which is gorgeous.

One of the things I really liked in the series was the children’s voices in the show. How important was it for you to have that?

Children love listening to other children and the children’s voices provide a narrative thread through the series. The children in the series are being told the stories and ask the kinds of questions that children listening might also ask. There is also a little life lesson in each episode that connects to the children’s interaction at the beginning of each episode.

As Producers, how did you find doing that aspect? (Never work with children or animals comes to mind!)

Hawa Kahn is a creative school facilitator so she is very used to working with children and firing their imaginations. The children in the series aren’t professional actors and the script was written around them – they are two sets of siblings. Time and patience is the key, with plenty of breaks. These children were superb to work with and incredibly literate. The youngest were 5 when we recorded and they were all just amazing.

Have you seen a difference in the reaction from listeners since it became a podcast?

Fun Kids has a very specific audience – children! The difference now that the series is a podcast is that it can reach audiences beyond Fun Kids and I think adults will enjoy listening just as much.

Do you have any advice for budding producers for Children’s audio?

Test your concepts and ideas with children first. They will tell you if it’s good and engaging. We got the children involved to read through the scripts, they were quite vocal if they thought something didn’t make sense or wasn’t funny.

Do you have a creation story you haven’t told yet but would love to?

There are so many! I think we will have to do another series. For example closer to home is the ancient story of Queen Albina and her sisters who was exiled from Syria to an uninhabited island which is now Britain.

Lastly, is there anything we didn’t ask that you’d like to add?

It was important for us to have a space to share more detail about the creation stories so In The Beginning.. now has a bespoke website inthebeginning.world where you can learn about the different myths, where they are from and more about the people they belong to. We have also transformed the artwork into a colouring book and postcards.

And finally I would say have a listen, you will hear stories from all over the world, told in a very unexpected and humorous way by an incredibly diverse and talented cast.

Listen to In The Beginning on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other popular podcast apps >>

The post Lucia Scazzocchio: Producing stories for children with In The Beginning appeared first on POD BIBLE.

The Football Ramble has been at the centre of football podcasting across the world for 15 years. What started out as four blokes sitting round a kitchen table with a minidisc player has grown into a varied slate of shows, including everything from studio discussions dissecting both the men’s and women’s game, to interviews, documentaries and immersive on-location features. Through all that the team maintain a keen eye for the absurd, and it’s been that way since its inception in 2007.

With the new football season starting this month ahead of a World Cup starting in November, we sat down with Charlie Morgan – Head of Production at Stak and a Football Ramble producer – to discuss what we can expect from the year ahead.

So, what does your day as a producer look like?

A real joy of the job is that no two days are the same. Mondays and Fridays are still dominated by the main Football Ramble episodes that we record at Stak HQ, so the content-planning and organisation for those hugely popular episodes is always a priority – listeners want to hear from us as soon as possible!

Away from that, it could be anything! I might be heading to a match to record an episode of At The Match with Andy Brassell, or we might be in the Stak office planning our next documentary series. I think listeners really enjoy the variety of what we do – so my job is equally as varied.

What are you most excited for on the Ramble network this season?

Upfront, our award-nominated women’s football show, has been really successful throughout the Euros this summer, and it’s a true joy to work on. I can’t wait to do more with Flo, Rachel and Chloe as we continue to grow the show and truly set our stall out as the definitive place for women’s football audio. Watch this space!

What’s the hardest part of producing the Football Ramble?

The range of content means we’re constantly juggling different deadlines! Some shows need to be recorded, edited and made available for listeners within an hour while others take months to produce, so keeping track of various spinning plates can be tricky.

Thankfully I’ve got a great team around me who keep things running smoothly. Luke Moore, Stak’s COO and Football Ramble host, has a wealth of experience we often draw on, while Finn Ranson and Rory Evans are the true workhorses of the Ramble team. It’s gone from a passion project to one of the biggest podcasts in the UK, but it’s safe to say the passion hasn’t gone anywhere.

Listen to Football Ramble on all popular podcast apps.

The post Charlie Morgan: Head of Production at Stak appeared first on POD BIBLE.

POD BIBLE: Can you give us a little bit of an insight to the National Trust podcast?

SEAN: I like to say it’s the podcast that immerses you in art, history and adventure. And it really does all the things that you would get if you came to a National Trust property. One day we could be talking about an obscure artefact that lives in an archive in one of our buildings, the next we could be on paddleboards, paddleboarding through The Menai Strait in Wales, or the next week, we could be on the back of mountain bikes going bikepacking. So it’s really varied, but if you like adventure, if you like history and heritage, it’s a podcast that packages all of that stuff into one.

But I think the thing that most people like about our podcast is it’s really immersive. And one of the things we try to do is to make the listener feel like they’re there. And especially during lockdown, we really became one of the only ports that people could go to those places, so we’ve come up with lots of techniques that really immerse people within the podcast, and often people say “I felt like I was there” or “I can’t wait to get my walking boots on because you inspired me to go on a walk.”

POD BIBLE: You mentioned it very briefly there, how was that transition into recording and creating things during the lockdown period?

SEAN: Not easy, because probably 99.9% of our podcasts are recorded on location. So that really put a spanner in the works for what we were doing. But it gave us opportunities to be creative, and it gave us opportunities to tell stories that we couldn’t or wouldn’t have told before. So one of my favourites was an episode called ‘Meet the Silver Surfers’. It was about these people in their 70s and 80s, who had been in these groups where they were really active and then suddenly, they were plunged into this world where they had to learn technology. Even with my mum, you know, she never really embraced her smartphone. And then I was getting text messages and the emojis and all of this stuff. And so it was how these kinds of people, these grandmothers embraced Facebook to be able to see their friends. But we ended up looking at a group of people in their 60s and 70s, who would go on these virtual tours around Cuba and the Mediterranean, and because they needed exercise, they all walk in front of their TVs. So that was that was a really nice story that we told.

I think the other thing that we did, that has now become a kind of staple of our podcast, is what I call the microphone distribution network. We started sending microphones out to get those interviews that normally we would rock up with our microphones and record in people’s homes or offices. And that’s really freed us up to take the podcast global you know, so we can have interviews in America, we can have interviews in Australia with experts that really help enhance the knowledge that we have within the National Trust. So the pandemic gave us some difficulties that we had to overcome, but it’s really enhanced what we do and really pushed forward the storytelling we’re able to do now.

POD BIBLE: The show is very much geared towards being outdoors and being in the properties in quite adventurous ways. Is that something that you’ve learned to do from being the producer, or were you already in that world?

SEAN: A bit of both really. Before I did the National Trust podcast, I have a podcast called The Codpast and one of the episodes I did was about a guy who had ADHD and to deal with it, he decided he was going to walk round the coast of New Zealand, I think it took him three years. And The Codpast was an interview based podcast, but that one I did in a very narrative style. And that kind of sparked my interest in doing narrative podcasts. And when I got to the National Trust, I decided to really utilise some of the skill set that I learned from working in television, because my background is television. Rather than using shotgun mics and things, we started hiring DPA mics, so the head-worn mics that Madonna would wear. And we put all of our presenters on radio mics. So if they wanted to climb a tree, they could. It really gave the presenters freedom to really explore rather than waiting for a Producer with a microphone to point it in their direction before they spoke.

And I think when I first started [The National Trust] were doing walks, literature, authors, homes, and gardens. And I started to think, how do I how do I turn a walk into a podcast? Do I just replace the studio with the outdoors? And I didn’t want to do that. So we worked out ways of how we could really embrace and engage the listener. So one of the things is we do a recce before we record, so we know exactly what’s coming in, where things are going to happen and where the best sounds are. And where a presenter will walk over the crest of the hill and, and see a beautiful view. And then we’ll add corresponding music that does that.

But we also have two scripts: we have a script for the Producers, and the script for the Presenters. And the Presenters kind of look at this and start to get hives because there’s massive blank spaces in their script, where there’s stuff that we know as Producers, but they don’t know. So we really want our Presenters to be experiencing things for the first time on microphone. And I always say, the best way to get a sense of a place is to listen to someone’s experience in that place, rather than them knowing everything and asking questions that they already know. So that’s how we did it.

And then it just expanded really. We started small, and then, you know, we’ve started doing these quite epic episodes every year. So last year, it was ‘A beginner’s guide to bike packing’, where we do a 36 mile journey – which is not far for bikepacking, but when you are carrying your recording kit, you’ve got the Producers, you’ve got the Presenters, you’ve got the Soundman, and we’re all on bikes, travelling along 30 degree inclines…. it’s quite a feat!

POD BIBLE: For the most part, you do standalone episodes. So how do you create a show that feels very unified, but each episode is quite unique at the same time?

SEAN: That’s an interesting question, because sometimes people do go “none of the episodes are the same, what you know, how would we create a synergy?” And I think, you know, all of the all of the episodes are about the National Trust. But what I like to do is look outside the Trust. So a lot of the time, ideas will come from an article that I’ve read and I think “okay, so is that something we do within the Trust is that something we can tap into?” So, our epic episode this year has been a beginner’s guide to paddle boarding. Paddleboarding is really big, you go down the middle aisle of your local supermarket, and you’ll see a blow up paddleboard. It’s something that’s really taken off, and it is something that is done at Trust places. But also, you know, one of the things we look at is carbon neutral transport to our places. Our places can be quite far away and the logical thing for a lot of people would be to go by car. But you could hike to our places, you could run to our places, you could cycle. And there’s lots of places we’ve got electric vehicles, but we thought, why not create an episode where we paddleboard to a National Trust property. So we still incorporated some of the art and history, but actually, we incorporated that adventure into the process of getting to the property.

I think everything we do is rooted in the National Trust. But we just find ways that we can utilise things that are quite zeitgeist, but also engaging new audiences. Because I think sometimes the National Trust does have an image of, you know, cream, teas and country homes. That is what we do, we do it really well. But there’s a lot more to the National Trust and the adventure side of what we do in the outdoorsy side of what the Trust does really appeals to a wider audience. So as often as we can we really try and tap into that.

POD BIBLE: Is there something that you still really want to do with the podcast, which you haven’t yet managed?

SEAN: I’ve talked about our epic episodes – we have done a wild swimming episode, we’ve done a backpacking episode, we’ve done a paddleboard in episode. So we’ve done land and sea, we haven’t done air yet. So that’s the next one. There is one episode that we’ve been trying to do for a while, which is called the jetpack paramedic. So there is a company called Gravity that makes jetpacks and there was a test with the Yorkshire air ambulance, where they use jetpacks for mountain rescue. I think they got to someone in 90 seconds, where if the mountain crew had to climb up, it would have taken them half an hour. And that was done on National Trust land. So that’s a story we’ve been trying to do for a while. That was scuppered by lockdown, we weren’t able to finish off doing that. But yeah, something to do with air travel, whether it’s jetpacks or paragliding or hang gliding. That’s an episode that I’d really like to do…

POD BIBLE: And what is the most interesting thing that you’ve learned from doing the podcast so far?

SEAN: I mean, I think that I’ve learned a lot about myself, to be honest, in doing the podcast. I think, an episode that I did last year for Black History Month was called ‘Black hiking’. I am someone who comes from London, and I went to Cornwall as a kid, but I’ve never really embraced the outdoors until I started working for the National Trust. And I remember one of my first recces that I did, I found myself halfway up a mountain in the Peak District. And it was completely silent. And that completely freaked me out. You know, being from London, if everything’s completely silent, something badly wrong has happened. So it was very interesting to try and get used to being in the outdoors. And I remember I met a guy and I said “this is really freaky. It’s too quiet” and he was saying, “Oh, no I couldn’t hack it in London because it’s too noisy.” And my love for the outdoors has grown with the National Trust and it’s probably reflected in a lot of the episodes that we do. But I think that’s probably the thing that I’ve learned the most.

But I think, from a production point of view is just how engaged in podcasts can be and how immersive, you can get with podcasts. And my boss at the National Trust had never listened to a podcast before I came. And I got her to listen to a podcast and she was like, “Oh, this is amazing. It’s this brave new world that I’ve never heard of before.” So I think it’s just the power of podcasting, and how you can really touch people with it, and really help people transport themselves to new places, if it’s done in the right way.

POD BIBLE: And it also goes the other way, the National Trust is such a big organisation, to have so many fantastic podcasts that you do, it really does just help to elevate podcasting, which we’re always going to be happy about!

SEAN: Yeah, and I think one of the great things about the podcast is we do tell stories that you potentially wouldn’t hear elsewhere in the Trust. We do dig deep and we do podcasts that are sometimes challenging, we do pick up on challenging topics. And I think it’s a great way just to show the breadth of the organisation because you could just see the National Trust as cream teas, and in country piles, but there’s so much breadth to it, The people that we work with are absolutely incredible, super passionate, super knowledgeable, and to be able to share all of that knowledge with the listeners, and just share some of these beautiful places with listeners is a really great thing to be able to do in a way that you can’t really do with video, and you can’t really do with copy.

I always say that podcasting is halfway between reading a book and watching a film: you give people just a little bit of a clue of what something looks like or sounds like, and then their imagination does the rest. So the places that people go to in our podcast are probably even more incredible than the actual places that we record them because their imagination’s doing all the work!

POD BIBLE: We do try to give people a ‘point of entry’ into podcasts, particularly when there’s a big back catalogue like yours. You’ve mentioned a couple of good episodes in there already. But is there one particular episode that you think people should absolutely go and listen to?

SEAN: I think ‘Operation Hillside’ is a really good episode, because it is the kind of thing that we like to do: really dig deep into the subject matter and tell stories that are really surprising about the National Trust. It’s one that I can’t tell you too much about, because that will be a big spoiler. But it’s a really interesting story. And it’s a story about something that you probably know, but in a very different way. And I think, you know, one of the producers that I worked with, went to some really deep depths to find archive material and things. And so it’s just a really rich listen to that’s probably a really great one for people to start with.

Listen to Sean talk about the National Trust podcast on the Pod Bible Podcast episode #114.

Listen to the National Trust Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other popular podcast apps.

The post Sean Douglas: Senior Podcast Producer for the National Trust appeared first on POD BIBLE.

Can you tell us the origins of Small Wardour – what drew you to this project?

Small Wardour is a new collaboration between Wardour Studios, founded by David Smith, and Small Audio, founded by Carla Herbertson. Before I was at Apple I worked as an Audiobooks Editor and Podcast Producer at the book publishers Penguin, so I got to work on some great children’s books. When I first started we recorded the audiobook editions of the Moomins books by Tove Jansson and we worked with Carla and David on their production and recording. I absolutely loved working with them both and between us we made something that I’m still proud of to this day. After that we often worked with them on various projects and they always brought that amazing creative energy.

I then went on to head up Apple Podcasts in Europe for the next eight years, which was a great opportunity to get an in-depth overview of the market, meet and work with so many amazing podcast creators and see the industry I loved so much evolve. But whilst I really learnt a lot there I always missed the creative side of podcasts and being on the other side of the table. Like a lot of people the pandemic really made me reassess my priorities so when Carla and David launched Small Wardour I knew I just had to be a part of it.

I read recently that podcasts aimed at children are more likely to be listened to with others (whilst the majority of adult listeners listen solo). Is this something you consider?

Yes absolutely! Whilst it’s really great to create shows that children love, there’s something really special about creating shows that the whole family can enjoy together. We know from David and Kim Normanton’s podcast Super Great Kids’ Stories that parents are listening along so we try to make something the whole family can enjoy – I myself listen with my little ones, it’s such a great way for families to bond over some screen-free entertainment together. In both the shows we are producing and the shows we consult on we keep this in mind. It’s a big part of our ethos that we create thoughtful, meaningful content and it’s really very rewarding to create something that facilitates quality family time.

What is the most valuable lesson you have learned from podcasting for children?

To really think about the ease of discoverability and how to do that in the right way. On most podcast platforms it’s the parents who will be doing the browsing and making the choices so it’s important the content speaks to them too.

Do you like to have constant input throughout the process of producing a podcast, or do you prefer your role to be siloed?

At the moment we are a very small team so we all work together on the creative process – especially around the ideas for a new show. Even though the focus of my role is in development and strategy I really enjoy this part of the job! We have a lot of fun bouncing ideas around and work well collaboratively to put the shows together. David is the expert in the studio so it’s him and Kim that do the audio wizardry.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet, but you would really like to work on?

We’re a fairly new business so there is still a lot to come for us! But I’m really excited about building a meaningful, supportive community around a children’s podcast. A place where parents can connect around a shared love of a show and what it means for their family. This sounds a bit lofty and conceptual but we all know how intimate podcasting can be and the connections listeners can feel towards hosts. I’d love to see if that could be extended between listeners too!

We do try to give people a ‘point of entry’ to help them discover new things. What would you say is the best thing to start listening to as a parent to showcase what you do?

I’d definitely say Super Great Kids’ Stories. It’s actually a Wardour Studios production as opposed to Small Wardour but it’s this podcast that got me back into the world of children’s audio. My little ones absolutely love it and it’s developed a really loyal fan base.

And for children – which episode do you think they’d like to start with?

If they don’t mind a little scare I’d recommend a story with Baba Yaga – she is my all time favourite witch! They could start with Baba Yaga’s breakfast (episode 8). Kim Normanton tells it so wonderfully – we couldn’t stop singing the Baba Yaga song in my house for ages! Otherwise, Tuup’s telling of Anansi and the Drum of Common Sense is more light-hearted and just so much fun!

Listen to the award-winning Super Great Kid’s Stories on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other popular podcast apps. Find out more about Small Wardour at smallwardour.co.uk.

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Stak is the bold, irreverent podcast company that is serious about creating quality audio. We are the creators of some of the UK’s favourite shows and entertain millions of people across the world. Katie Baxter is a Senior Producer and Sound Designer at Stak. She’s the producer of JaackMaate’s Happy Hour, one of Spotify’s biggest shows and the most successful YouTube to podcast conversions in the UK, as well as Eureka! and UTOPIA Talks. She also works across Stak’s commercial audio.

WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE ASPECT OF YOUR WORK AT STAK?

I love the creative freedom I have and the range of projects I get to be a part of. Whether it’s comedy for JaackMaate’s Happy Hour, crazy sound design for Eureka! or thinking up music focused content for UTOPIA Talks, I feel like at Stak I get to try my hand at a lot of different things. I also really appreciate the amount of trust that’s put in me to deliver a good show.

WHAT WAS IT THAT INITIALLY GRABBED YOUR ATTENTION TO PODCASTING?

I’ve always loved music, so when I went to uni I got really involved with student radio and started producing, presenting and DJing, which really drove my love for audio to the next level and made me want to turn it into a career. I did a few internships in radio and one day in my third year I got an email from Stak inviting me to come and see their studio. I caught a coach down to London from Nottingham just before my final deadline and the rest is history!

WHAT’S A PODCAST YOU’RE LOVING AT THE MOMENT?

The Log Books is an amazing LGBTQ+ history podcast. I also always come back to Song Exploder and I listen to Today in Focus a lot!

WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE ESSENTIAL INGREDIENTS TO MAKE A SUCCESSFUL PODCAST?

That is the golden question! In my experience it’s taking pride in the content you create, being consistent, working well as a team and trying to give whatever you’re making its own unique spin!

Listen to Katie’s work on JaackMaate’s Happy Hour, Eureka! and UTOPIA Talks wherever you get your podcasts.

The post Katie Baxter: Senior Producer and Sound Designer at Stak appeared first on POD BIBLE.

I hear that the Crowd Network team jokingly call you the Podfather! And you’ve certainly been a creative force on some of the biggest shows like We Didn’t Start The Fire. What do you consider when taking on a new podcast job?

The really great ideas for podcasts always grip you straight away. You might only hear a line or two about it, but you just know it’ll work. When we first started discussing We Didn’t Start the Fire, I thought, this is either insanity or genius. And as soon as your brain starts working it out – “hang on, this is a history pod, but it’s also a number one song, and it’s got almost 120 places, events and people wrapped up inside it, and hang on again, this is all the reasons why the world today is as it is…” you just know it’s going to work, and you know that you’re going to love doing it.

You’ve been a co-presenter for several popular podcasts – the Joe Marler Show, The Geraint Thomas Cycling Club, Peter Crouch and others – how do you bring out the best in the host?

I always think my job is to bring out the best in the host. I need to know all their stories, understand what makes them laugh, and steer us to the point where they are at their most relaxed, entertaining and insightful. And while all those you mention have become excellent – and very natural – broadcasters – they’re also elite sports people first. I will never be an elite sports performer first; I’m been broadcasting and writing across the same period of time. So I should be doing what I’m good at to liberate them to do what they’re so good at.

The Geraint Thomas Cycling Club (GTCC) has recently reached 1million downloads, congratulations! Take us back to the start of the podcast, how did it all come about?

Geraint and I have been mates for a while, working together on his series of books. He’s got the special combination of being a world-class sportsman while also remaining completely down to earth, capable of giving those of outside the bubble sensational insights into what it’s really like while maintaining the same fans’ perspective as us at the same time. We knew the format would work – Geraint talking to fellow cycling heroes, around big topics and big insights – but we wanted to make it more than a podcast, too. A community around the chats, a real club that you felt part of as a listener and contributed to. Our GTCC members aren’t just a passive audience; they make the club what it is – running the social side, meeting up for rides and coffees, recommending reading lists and playlists.

GTCC has also launched a proper cycling club so that listeners of the show can connect with other listeners outside of the podcast. What would you say is the trick to creating a community that exists outside of a podcast?

I’d almost say “trick” is the opposite of it all. It all has to be genuine. The best podcasts are little complete worlds of their own, with their own language, and jokes, and references. And they aren’t just three people in a room, or four; they’re all the people who listen – their stories, their ideas, their interests and sense of humour. The three (or four) people in a room are just the most visible part of it. With the GTCC, we have a group ride each Wednesday evening on Zwift, the indoor cycling app. We might be physically scattered across the world, but come 6pm, we’re all there together – all in GTCC kit, all asking how our weeks have been, discussing the latest ep of the pod, encouraging each other to keep going and then telling some terrible jokes. We do similar things with the Joe Marler Show, with a particular focus around mental health issues. Basically we all try to look after each other. It’s a lovely thing to be part of.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet, but you would really like to work on?

Good question… There are more podcasts than ever before, but there is always room for the great idea. There’s certain things we always ask ourselves at Crowd Network when we’re thinking about new shows: is this trailblazing, is it inclusive, does it represent the best that a pod can be, in that area? It goes back to what we were saying with the ideas that you hear and just go, yep. That’s the one. That’s a beauty. I’ve really enjoyed helping to develop Crowd Stories, where we try to make high-end, immersive documentaries. That’s a new challenge for me, and it’s been fun. So has working with the team we have at Crowd, and growing it. They’re a talented bunch, making great shows. Something fresh, something original, something you can’t wait to tell people about. Those are always the ones you have to do.

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So, tell us the origins of Stripped Media – how did it all begin?

I was hosting on our aftershow / TV Companion Podcast for HBO’s The Wire, called The Wire Stripped with my co-host Dave Corkery (The Cinemile) and esteemed editor Tom Whalley (aka “T-Bone” from Huey Morgan’s BBC 6 Music Show, Kermode on Film… the list is endless!). We all worked really hard on The Wire Stripped as we didn’t want it to be the standard format for these shows where two guys recap each episode of a show scene by scene from a cupboard.

We hustled hard to get key actors and experts to show who could add the kind of depth and flavour that would make our show stand out. It really worked and meant that we got lots of amazing “wait how did you put this together?” feedback! We thought that we could apply this to other shows and set up Stripped Media to do just that. Not long after we were commissioned by Spotify to produce His Darker Materials a companion podcast to the BBC/HBO His Dark Materials TV show.

We also wanted to build out a network and help other pop culture podcasts grow so invited ace shows like Song By Song and 90 Minutes or Less Film Fest to join us.

What do you consider when taking on a new podcast?

We’re positioned as “Forward Thinking Pop Culture Podcasts” so we’re championing Diversity and Inclusion from the creators of the shows that we bring into the network and those that we produce ourselves. Most of the time it’s an easy choice, such as being invited to work on Equal Too a podcast from Proctor and Gamble and HTYT, the production team behind Netflix Documentary Rising Phoenix that champions disability rights alongside and beyond the Paralympics.

Do you like to have constant input throughout the process of producing a podcast, or do you prefer your role to be siloed?

It depends on the show completely. I work closely with Twiggy to produce her show Tea With Twiggy and my co-host Helen Sadler on one of the podcasts I host Flixwatcher. A lot of the time I just connect the team, provide input at ideation and comment on first drafts of show. The shows that we bring fully formed onto the network don’t need me sticking my oar in!

What is the most valuable lesson you have learned from podcasting?

Be excellent to everyone and work with excellent passionate people. It makes what you do way easier and the final project so much better as a result. The team that we put together for Equal Too for example was just astonishing. It was important here that the team included a high proportion of people with disabilities to ensure the stories were told properly and insightfully. I’m super proud of what we accomplished with that show. It’s a gazillion times better because of the people we worked with! We’re still working with the Equal Too team where we can with, and we’re not waiting for podcasts relaying stories about disabled peopled to do so.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet, but you would really like to work on?

I’d really love to work with HBO, Netflix, BBC, Amazon Prime or one of these amazing TV networks to produce the official companion to one of their shows. We’ve had discussions with a few of them but nothing has materialised – yet…

We do try to give people a ‘point of entry’ to help them discover new things. If readers haven’t managed to catch any Stripped Media shows yet, would you say there is one episode or show they should start absolutely with?

Sure! I’m going to be cheeky and mention three! A new show to Stripped Media is First Film Club where Film Critic Hanna Flint speaks to actors, producers and directors about their first feature films. Another new Stripped Media Podcast is The Simple Politics Podcast based on the @SimplePolitics Instagram account with nearly 800, 000 followers. Finally an episode of Flixwatcher, one of the oldest Stripped Media Podcasts, to listen to would be Episode 192 “Bugsy Malone” as we were joined by Adam Buxton and Joe Cornish, aka podcasting GOATs Adam and Joe.

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What does Crowd Network consider when taking on a new podcast?

This could take a while, but to distil it right down: is it a unique idea (which can sometimes be hard to find in the podcast world)? What are the resources needed to make it? If it is a partnership, do we want to work with the creator, personality or media company? How committed will they be to the podcast?

At some stage we also look at sponsorship and the revenue potential, but that isn’t always the deciding factor. Essentially, we want each title that Crowd produces to add value to our company and reputation.

Do you like to have constant input throughout the process of producing a podcast, or do you prefer your role to be siloed?

Nothing at Crowd is siloed, everyone has a say and all opinions are valued and considered. From my point of view, I am a creative at heart and the best part of my job as CEO is being involved in idea generation, commissioning and launching. However, the three other founding members of Crowd, Louise Gwilliam, Steve Jones, and Tom Fordyce, are the best content creators and producers in the industry, and they’re supported by a growing team of brilliant talent. I trust them implicitly, so I am happy to take a back seat and get involved when they ask for my advice or input.

What is the most valuable lesson you have learned in the past year?

Patience is key. It takes time to grow an audience for most podcasts. At Crowd, we are very much focused on creating long term projects and building that loyal community around the show or personality. We took this approach with The Joe Marler Show and The Geraint Thomas Cycling Club, both of which have been very successful. Part of that success is down to Joe and Geraint themselves being fully committed to the long-term vision of the project, and their listeners.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet, but you would really like to work on?

I would love to make a podcast with Roy Keane. We had a route in to him and pitched an idea. Apparently, the response was short and to the point, so I’m not sure that will happen…

Steve [Jones] and Tom [Fordyce] created That Peter Crouch Podcast, and I reckon a Keane podcast, with the right treatment, could grow even bigger.

Crowd Network’s shows have spanned the Atlantic – from The Geraint Thomas Cycling Club podcast to looking at the American law system in Unaccountable. Have you found there are differences in the way you approach shows – and how they approach you?

We are increasingly making content targeted to the US market. This includes American Vigilante (launched September 13th ) and Anthrax (launching in October), which is based on the Anthrax attacks that followed 9/11. These opportunities arose through the success and quality of Murder in House Two, which charted a 15-year investigation into the Haditha Massacre at the hands of US Marines. It was our first show to win an award, and has opened a lot of doors for us. Every approach is different, and every business model is different. Crowd are not a production house, so the business model must involve shared ownership and revenue. The US market is much more used to this than the UK, which can sometimes be dominated by the commissioning strategy of the BBC.

With our personality shows, with Alan Cumming, Geraint, Joe, and Jamie Redknapp (coming soon) it is about going to them and their team with a compelling idea, a long-term vision, and a way of working which suits their busy careers. Plus, they are all competitive people, so they want it to be the best it can be.

Shows such as The Mentor and Unaccountable were projects we believe could make a difference to people’s lives. Podcasting can be an effective tool to instigate change or at least get people thinking and talking. From the very start, Crowd has been committed to using our platform as a force for good, reflected in many of the series we create.

We try to give people a ‘point of entry’ to help them discover new things. If readers haven’t managed to catch your shows yet, would you say there is one they should absolutely start with?

I am going to give you two, as at Crowd we focus on producing both personality pods and trail blazing documentaries. The Joe Marler Show – presented by rugby player Joe Marler, but no mention of rugby. Joe’s joined by Tom, and each week they speak to a new guest who has a fascinating background or career. Believe me when I say it takes them to completely new places each week – from chatting to a woman who worked on Death Row, hearing from someone who grew up in a cult, to talking to a real-life clown. Joe is an amazing person and was the first person we approached when we launched Crowd. Authentic, funny, and complex. An absolute star. American Vigilante – just go and listen, I promise you will be enthralled by it. It has taken us most of this year to get this show launched. If you want a strap line, it is about the real-life A-Team, but it is so much more than that.

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The podcast is a co-production between the ETT (English Touring Theatre) and Storyglass. We usually do host interviews for new podcasts, but with multiple famous hosts taking on their own parts of the 6-part series, we decided to speak to the people on the other side of the microphone. So we asked some questions of Jen Bakst (Commissioning Editor) and Robert Delamere & Richard Twyman (Executive Producers.) Here are their amalgamated answers:

What does a producer consider when taking on a new podcast job – what appealed to you about THAT PODCAST?

We’d never heard of a project quite like THAT PODCAST… That’s what got us excited about the idea.

A magazine-style podcast which meshes together journalistic storytelling, comedy, interviews with experts, testimonials from the public and creative storytelling? It was like a chemistry experiment – it was either going to blow up in our faces, or it was going to result in a really interesting new format. So we thought we’d give it a go!

Plus, what with ETT being a theatre company, we were really keen to keep working with playwrights and creative freelancers who had had their projects cancelled due to the pandemic, to enable these brilliant visionaries to keep making imaginative and important work and share it with a broad range of audiences. So together with Storyglass, we paired these writers up with some of Britain’s leading comedians, journalists and commentators to synthesize fact and fiction in a new podcast.

We were relieved and delighted to find out that this content all sits side-by-side really well. There’s an exciting alchemy in combining factual material with humorous commentary and artistic perspective.

In terms of the actual content – these are obviously very strange and unexpected times to be living in, so we just wanted to really interrogate how the pandemic has influenced every aspect of our lives: from our dreams, to our love lives, to our communities, our news, our travel, our grieving rituals…

Did you take inspiration from any podcasts in particular before you started (either as a team, or an individual)?

When we first started this project, it was the summer of 2020, and everyone was still trying to wrap their minds around how the pandemic had changed the world overnight. At some point in a meeting, one of us said something like: “I wish the UK had a version of This American Life to explain it all to us!” It was a joke, but as with all jokes made in frustration, there was a definite kernel of truth in it. The idea stuck with us.

This American Life is so iconic in the world of podcasting, with its deep-dives into existential state-of-the-nation questions, how it features voices of the public in a meaningful way, and how it goes into the minutiae of the constantly changing landscape of daily life. We wanted to do a British version of This American Life, but made from a mostly cultural perspective instead of a journalistic one. We wanted to try and put together a creative insight into the complex and mercurial question of what it means to be British today, by telling stories from contemporary life reimagined by some of the most exciting voices in fiction.

Also, an absolutely huge shout out to Ewan MacColl, Peggy Seeger and Charles Parker, the geniuses behind the radio ballads of the 50s, who gave us the idea for mixing artforms in audio.

What is the most valuable lesson you have learned producing this type of ‘magazine’ podcast?

We learned two big headline things: number one is – there are just crazy amounts of talent out there in every facet of British cultural life, in every nook and cranny. I mean, we obviously had a pretty good sense of that before we started. But I don’t think we were fully ready for the total breadth and depth of how the UK’s cultural scene is bursting at the seams with fascinating, diverse, imaginative, wild and wonderful artists. It was such a privilege to work with people from every discipline – performance artists, spoken word artists, drag artists, theatre-makers, storytellers, singer-songwriters, sleep scientists, journalists, sex historians, refugee human rights advocates, sex workers, app developers, novelists, travel writers, data scientists and spiritual leaders… We worked with over one hundred people on this podcast and we would have worked with a hundred more if we could have, but I think it would have broken the budget (and the team).

The second thing is – when you’re making a project that involves over a hundred people, it takes time. As the project grew and developed, we started uncovering more and more material, more stories, and more content from all our contributors. We realised pretty quickly that this was going to be a massive project that would need some deep thought and some proper nurturing of the many different pieces and artforms that were going into it. Ultimately, we’re really proud of what we’ve put out – but we also still have so many stories, testimonials, facts and ideas for creative commissions that didn’t make it into the podcast because we had to make cuts for the edit. Fingers crossed we get a season two so we can share some of our best-loved but as yet unheard materials!

You have different celebrity guests presenting each part. How did the collaboration work with the presenters?

It was such a joy to work with an amazing line up of different hosts – incredible comedians like Sophie Duker, Desiree Burch, Chris McCausland and Nish Kumar, film legends like Terry Gilliam, and top-shelf journalists like Remona Aly. Each one of them is so politically engaged, so smart and switched on, and with such a unique voice and perspective on things. It felt like, thanks to these collaborations with different hosts, each episode was refracted through a different lens, making the overall effect of the thing feel like a kaleidoscope of viewpoints. Which is exactly what we wanted for this project that is supposed to reflect the diversity of our nation.

For each one of them, we had an early-doors chat with the hosts to discuss the theme of the episode, and get their input. Then, based on those chats we’d set to curating content for the episode – interviewees, testimonials, creative commissions, etc. We eventually drafted a script for the episode and they’d change it round and make it their own.

What is something you haven’t managed to do yet with THAT PODCAST, but you would really like to work on?

Something that was new for us on THAT PODCAST was the testimonials from members of the public. So many people were really generous and honest with us in sharing their lived experiences, which ranged from the hilarious, to the unexpected, to the really really difficult.

The bummer though is that because of COVID restrictions, we couldn’t get any audio from live community events, from people on the streets, from people’s homes, things happening in the moment. Maybe in the next season, if we’re not making it in a lockdown this time, we’ll be able to fulfil our dream of having a roving reporter gathering audio from live events and gatherings, rather than doing it remotely via the internet.

How do you experience other podcasts as a listener? Can you turn off your editing ear and just enjoy shows, or do you always tune in to the things you would have done differently yourself?

We’re really happy to just enjoy what pops up in our feed, and celebrate the rich range of the podcasting world.

Because it’s still a relatively early medium, content is made at really different levels of professionalism. Some podcasts are really home-brewed and sweet, whereas others are much more thoroughly researched and supported have higher production values. There’s a really wide range out there, and no “right” way to make a podcast.

Where can Pod Bible readers find out more about you?

You can listen to THAT PODCAST… on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Acast, and wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more about ETT, visit www.ett.org.uk. For more on Fremantle and Storyglass, go to www.fremantle.com.

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